Religious Tithing

[resto]

With respect, I sincerely hope that you are not a preacher in real life, and if you are, that the above is not typical of your sermons. It's doctrinally sloppy, poorly researched, and emotionally charged. I wouldn't tolerate preaching like that in my church.

Voluntary tithing is recorded exactly once in Scripture, in Genesis 14. There is no record that Jacob ever fulfilled his promise from Genesis 28, and the next mention is in Leviticus, as part of the Law.

Mandatory tithing under the Law was only imposed on agricultural producers, was only payable in agricultural products (or money with a surcharge of 20%), and was only payable directly to the Levites (or from Levites to priests), though the text is unclear as to the exact disposition of the third-year tithe.

As mandatory tithing is part of the Law, and Christians are not under the Law, there is no mandatory tithing for Christians. Using the concept when talking about offerings for the Church is misleading at best and profoundly unbiblical at worst. The New Testament teaches generous and even sacrificial giving, but not "tithing". Further, Christians are not under the "commandments" either, but that can be a separate discussion.

If you want to encourage people to give to the Church and/or to charitable causes, at least do so on the solid foundation of directly-relevant Scripture, not guilt-inducing implications that only result in confusion and uncertainty.

Your Attitude is Typical in America. Because no one Challenges you to Back it up. "In Your Church". So you own a Church do You? OH...You In Charge Now? You "Encourage Giving" do You" You Compel", Do You" ? Come to The Mission Field and Talk this, I Beg You. You are whats wrong with this "American Church", as if there was ever such a thing. They will kill you here for your Arrogance. I dont blame them. You Educated? I doubt it. I sat under people like you. Dominant Kings, You are no Shepard, You would Abandon the Sheep here. They have no Money for you Here. Tell me what gives you the right to Rebuke? Your Anger and Hate, is very apparent. GET A REAL JOB! I sold everything to come here. I Financed my own Mission Station Here In SE Asia. I Never asked anyone for anything. Leave That Man alone. No one cares what you know, No one cares what you think you "Allow". "What Ever Measure", "Pressed Down And Shaken Together". The only thing that makes your words so Important to you, is your Ego. Cult Leader. Your "Toleration" of what is Preached will soon go away. Ill be straight up with you young man, you keep your piece, this aint your World and you need to treat people better. Im just Happy someone is Preaching. Grace is a very wide Body of Water, that I refuse to Judge. Return to your "First Love".

 

[Dino246]

Your Attitude is Typical in America.

I'm not in America.

Because no one Challenges you to Back it up.

I have and can back it up. Confidently.

"In Your Church". So you own a Church do You? OH...You In Charge Now?

Don't be a dumb a**.

You "Encourage Giving" do You" You Compel", Do You" ?

Yawn.

Come to The Mission Field and Talk this, I Beg You.

Why would I bother since you won't listen?

You are whats wrong with this "American Church"

See first comment above.

They will kill you here for your Arrogance. I dont blame them.

Bring it on. You will answer to Jesus for your attitude.

You Educated? I doubt it.

More than you, likely.

I sat under people like you. Dominant Kings, You are no Shepard, You would Abandon the Sheep here. They have no Money for you Here.

You don't know jack about me.

Tell me what gives you the right to Rebuke? Your Anger and Hate, is very apparent.

Look in the mirror and say that.

GET A REAL JOB! I sold everything to come here. I Financed my own Mission Station Here In SE Asia.

Matthew 6:2.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Your Attitude is Typical in America. Because no one Challenges you to Back it up. "In Your Church". So you own a Church do You? OH...You In Charge Now? You "Encourage Giving" do You" You Compel", Do You" ? Come to The Mission Field and Talk this, I Beg You. You are whats wrong with this "American Church", as if there was ever such a thing. They will kill you here for your Arrogance. I dont blame them. You Educated? I doubt it. I sat under people like you. Dominant Kings, You are no Shepard, You would Abandon the Sheep here. They have no Money for you Here. Tell me what gives you the right to Rebuke? Your Anger and Hate, is very apparent. GET A REAL JOB! I sold everything to come here. I Financed my own Mission Station Here In SE Asia. I Never asked anyone for anything. Leave That Man alone. No one cares what you know, No one cares what you think you "Allow". "What Ever Measure", "Pressed Down And Shaken Together". The only thing that makes your words so Important to you, is your Ego. Cult Leader. Your "Toleration" of what is Preached will soon go away. Ill be straight up with you young man, you keep your piece, this aint your World and you need to treat people better. Im just Happy someone is Preaching. Grace is a very wide Body of Water, that I refuse to Judge. Return to your "First Love".

There's this uber cool new invesntion you should check out, it's called "paragraphs"

 

[Gideon300]

There's this uber cool new invesntion you should check out, it's called "paragraphs"

Leave him alone. He uses punctuation. That's better than some! And it's "invention". Spill chukka should give you a clue.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Leave him alone. He uses punctuation. That's better than some! And it's "invention". Spill chukka should give you a clue.

Paragraphs are your friend, let's employee them shall we Mr Spelling Cop

 

[Gideon300]

Paragraphs are your friend, let's employee them shall we Mr Spelling Cop [/
Ah. The paragraph police speak. I agree, but full stops and commas are more important.

Since grammar is not taught in schools these days, we have generations of the semi literate. Are you an English teacher by any chance?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Pargraphs make thinks easierer to reads so get you're acts togethers!

 

[Dino246]

Pargraphs make thinks easierer to reads so get you're acts togethers!

My Acts is together... all 28 chapters. The ending does leave you hanging though.

 

[YWPMI]

Wow. Really? "Pastors and small group leaders"??? title being about "Tithing"?

Yet what I see is bickering and ugliness here!!! This is NOT Godly speak in this room! Godly speak is comfort, teaching with a loving attitude! not ranting and raving because someone misspells a word or two, or thinks differently than you.

Remind me to NOT attend any of your churches!!!!! Wow.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Godly speak is comfort, teaching with a loving attitude!

If you knew God's Word better you would see lots of correction and calling out false teachers as wolves.

You must be one of those Joel Osteen fans eh?

 

[YWPMI]

You must be one of those Joel Osteen fans eh?

NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!! and apparently you're not getting the jist of what I said. I'm all for discipline in God's Word... but not the way I'm seeing it here!

 

[Stan_the_Man]

NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!! and apparently you're not getting the jist of what I said. I'm all for discipline in God's Word... but not the way I'm seeing it here!

Jesus came to bring division (Luke 12:51) between the sheep and the wolves, between the wheat and the tares.

One good thing about all the turmoil in the world is it's getting much easier to tell the sheep from the wolves.

 

[selahsays]

Paragraphs are your friend, let's employee them shall we Mr Spelling Cop

“employee” ?

 

[Charlie_2024]

Brothers and Sisters,

My Lord said:

Luke 19 45And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold, 46saying to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a den of robbers.”

Matthew 21 13 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’ ”

Where is the house of the Lord? Where does he dwell?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/tithe

The term “tithe” (Heb. “maaser”)—meaning, the one tenth part of something given to charity—appears often in the Torah

Is it wrong to tithe? That would depend on what it is used for wouldn’t it? Is it used for the body first? For those in the body who are in need? Or is it to build a large empty building with fancy furnishings. With leaders who stuff themselves and theirs first before sharing what is left with the body, if they share at all? Showing love for each other and care, instead of like the world? That would make the world see something they don’t have, a true living community, a family who takes care of each other. This is the way!

If they did do that, then the Lord would provide a greater bounty for them to also share for those outside the body. To be able to show love and compassion for those outside, as you too once were outside! Not to become wasteful, boastful, and haughty. He will provide what you need, least you become distracted from what is truly important!

Yet many say, the law doesn’t apply, especially of the old Jewish laws…. Oh, well, maybe only select laws do.

At the same time one of the 10 commandments, thanks to man’s religious traditions which was never removed in the reformation, which was written by the hand of God first, then rewritten by Mosses is ignored by many in religion. Then sometimes, when they do “observe it” they add to the law just as the Jewish religious did.

Whose commandment was it? Who blessed that day and made it Holy? Tell me of all the commandments listed which one seems like it would be the easiest, if it were possible to keep?

Maybe it depends on who is feeding you?

‘Tis the season, the Lord is not a gene, he is not santa clause, here to grant you wishes while you live your life for you. He gave his Son for you, who laid down His life for His flock. The victory is won, the deed is done, will you pick up your cross and stand as one with the Father and Son? Or eat, drink and be merry? Who is your King, who do you follow?

The Lord is the Way!
blessed be the name of the Lord forever and ever!

Love, your brother in Christ

Tithing is a guide to give at least 10%, but we should give more whenever possible.

We have a really good example of how God hates those who hold back from giving in Acts 5:1-11

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.

7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?”

She said, “Yes, for so much.”

9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.

We see God had no mercy on this man and his wife, for holding back what they were supposed to give to to the Church. God killed both of them, so that should be a serious lesson for all of us to give generously or we could end up like that poor couple.

 

[Dino246]

Tithing is a guide to give at least 10%,

No, "tithing" is not "a guide to give at least 10%" at all. It is a requirement under the Mosaic Law to bring a tenth of your crops and every tenth animal to the temple (tabernacle); there is no "give" at all (double entendre intended). As Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, there is no minimum percentage for giving.

but we should give more whenever possible.

We are encouraged to give generously and even sacrificially, but "whenever possible" is not in Scripture anywhere.

We have a really good example of how God hates those who hold back from giving in Acts 5:1-11

No, we don't. Acts 5:1-11 is about honesty (and appearances). It has nothing whatsoever to do with tithing, and nothing to do with "holding back from giving". Ananias and Sapphira were put to death because of their dishonesty. From verse 4: "You have not lied to men but to God.”

We see God had no mercy on this man and his wife, for holding back what they were supposed to give to to the Church.

Fundamentally wrong, as explained above. Verse 4 clearly shows that the money belonged to A&S to do with as they pleased: "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control?"

God killed both of them, so that should be a serious lesson for all of us to give generously or we could end up like that poor couple.

That is seriously wrong. The warning is to honesty, not generosity. The fear-based giving you promulgate is not biblically sound.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

“employee” ?

Yes, hire some paragraphs as employees and put them to work separating what you write today!

It's work American won't do but there's lots of illegal aliens that are looking for work to supplement the free government hand outs they are getting as they seek to live the American Dream

 

[Charlie_2024]

No, "tithing" is not "a guide to give at least 10%" at all. It is a requirement under the Mosaic Law to bring a tenth of your crops and every tenth animal to the temple (tabernacle); there is no "give" at all (double entendre intended). As Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, there is no minimum percentage for giving.


We are encouraged to give generously and even sacrificially, but "whenever possible" is not in Scripture anywhere.


No, we don't. Acts 5:1-11 is about honesty (and appearances). It has nothing whatsoever to do with tithing, and nothing to do with "holding back from giving". Ananias and Sapphira were put to death because of their dishonesty. From verse 4: "You have not lied to men but to God.”


Fundamentally wrong, as explained above. Verse 4 clearly shows that the money belonged to A&S to do with as they pleased: "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control?"


That is seriously wrong. The warning is to honesty, not generosity. The fear-based giving you promulgate is not biblically sound.

There are many other scriptures which could be applied to show how important it is to give generously and sacrificially.

Agreed, it not set at 10% under the new covenant. If we consider that everything we have belongs to God, then we get a different perspective towards our money.

what about the parable of the talents, which shows God blesses those who are good stewards of their money so they can be a greater blessing to those in need. And Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell all he has and give it to the poor. We see that giving generously is required if we are to inherit the Kingdom of God.

I have found too many Christians make excuses for not giving generously, they complain about the cost of living and kinds of other excuses. I don't find any examples in the bible to excuse people for not giving, even that old lady was blessed for giving her last two mites, so if she can give her last few coins so can all of us give generously who live in the prosperous west.

 

[Dino246]

There are many other scriptures which could be applied to show how important it is to give generously and sacrificially.

No argument there.

However, this thread is not about generosity, but about "tithing", and "tithing" is not generosity. Let's not confuse the issues.

 

[Charlie_2024]

No argument there.

However, this thread is not about generosity, but about "tithing", and "tithing" is not generosity. Let's not confuse the issues.

OK, I understand but how do we know how much we should give. My Church calls giving "tithes and offerings", this suggests that tithing is still observed in the new testament Church.

I don't know of any new testament passages where tithing was abolished or done away with. It seems to remain as a guide as to how much of our money we should give. I don't want to confuse this with some of the other old testament requirements which were abolished, such as dietary etc.

 

[Dino246]

OK, I understand but how do we know how much we should give.

You're thinking of the tithe as money; it was never money under the Law. Until you grasp that fundamental distinction, the confusion will remain.

I have no idea how much you or anyone else should give; that is between you, your spouse (if you're married), and the Lord.

Perhaps you earn literally just enough to pay the bills: then pay your bills. Don't presume upon God's provision by giving your bill money to the Church; that's actually theft. Instead, ask the Lord for additional income so that you may support the Church.

Perhaps you earn enough that you have "discretionary income". Assign some of that for your local church and some for other giving. You are also free to use some for your own interests.

The point is this: you need to develop your relationship with the Holy Spirit and trust His guidance on where and how much you should give. In this sense, "tithing" is actually laziness, because you assume you're doing God's will and you will likely ignore His nudges to do something different.

My Church calls giving "tithes and offerings", this suggests that tithing is still observed in the new testament Church.

It suggests that many church leaders haven't done their homework on the subject. Some leaders will use the term "tithes and offerings" to keep peace on the subject.

I don't know of any new testament passages where tithing was abolished or done away with. It seems to remain as a guide as to how much of our money we should give. I don't want to confuse this with some of the other old testament requirements which were abolished, such as dietary etc.

Consider this: tithing (under the Mosaic Law) was designed to support the Levites and priests, who do not exist in the New Testament Church. The produce (not money!) was brought to the temple and eaten by those who worked there. Further, it was only payable by those who produced crops or raised animals. Fishermen, loggers, clerks and craftsmen were all exempt.

I have to break off here but I will return to this later.