Rapture

[Evmur]

We've almost got you, Evmur!

 

[Yoke-Fellow]

YOUR QUOTE -----Actually, we won’t know. ======

I say ========Ya!!!!!! that is just it and you can't give a Scripture that says that either ---cause there is none ---you are taking Scripture out of Context ===Satan has you duped -----

The Tribulation is for unbelievers only --------

and the last line of this Scripture tells you that --------this is speaking of unbelievers who make it through will be saved ---Believers are already saved ---no need to be saved again ----think about that ---

13 You will be hated by everyone because of [your association with] My name, but the one who [patiently perseveres empowered by the Holy Spirit and] endures to the end, he will be saved.
-
Your Quote here

Mark 13:11 (NKJV)


I say
All your doing is taking a Piece of Scripture here out of Context and twisting it to say what you want it to say -

This is the whole Scripture in Context -----

This scripture is describing what has to happen before the end comes -----this is not dealing with the tribulation itself ---Jesus is just describing what must happen before the Tribulation comes ---and He is telling His Disciples to be careful --as many will persecute them and beat them but this is not a sign of the end ===they are to expect to be persecuted ----and rely on the Holy Spirit to speak through them ---------

Mark 13 is known as the Olivet Discorurse

Things to Come

13 As He was coming out of the temple [grounds], one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look what [a]wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!”

2 Jesus replied to him, “You see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left on another which will not be [b]torn down!”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

4 “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be fulfilled?”

5 Jesus began to say to them, “Be careful and see to it that no one misleads you.

6 Many will come in My name [misusing My name or claiming to be the Messiah], saying, ‘I am He!’ and will deceive and mislead many.

7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed (frightened, troubled); these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

8 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will be famines.

These things are the beginning of the [c]birth pangs [the intolerable anguish and suffering].

9 “But be on your guard; they will turn you over to courts, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand [as accused] before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.

10 The gospel [that is, the good news regarding the way of salvation] must first be preached to all the [Gentile] nations.

11 When they take you and turn you over [to the court], do not worry beforehand about what to say, but say whatever is given to you [by God] in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit [who will speak through you].

12 Brother will betray brother to [be put to] death, and a father [will hand over] his child; and children will rise up and take a stand against parents and have them put to death.

13 You will be hated by everyone because of [your association with] My name, but the one who [patiently perseveres empowered by the Holy Spirit and] endures to the end, he will be saved.

I say
Notice Where the Rapture is placed ------see red arrow --------in this Chart ------Believer are gone---before the tribulation

I say
All your doing is taking a Piece of Scripture here out of Context and twisting it to say what you want it to say -

Your words above are false. Be very careful, my friend. I did not take Scripture out of context or twist it in any way.

 

[studentoftheword]

Your words above are false. Be very careful, my friend. I did not take Scripture out of context or twist it in any way.

LOL ----when all else fails ----use threats or intimidation to make your point

your quote here -----
Be very careful, my friend---------

I say -----be careful or WHAT ?????? Don't say the truth ----??????

 

[Yoke-Fellow]

@studentoftheword, you say “I say ========Ya!!!!!! that is just it and you can't give a Scripture that says that either ---cause there is none ---you are taking Scripture out of Context ===Satan has you duped -----

The Tribulation is for unbelievers only --------

and the last line of this Scripture tells you that --------this is speaking of unbelievers who make it through will be saved ---Believers are already saved ---no need to be saved again ----think about that”
….

First off, the Olivet Prophecy concerns the events that will bring an end to this age. In Mark 13, Jesus gives His disciples (and us) the 7 seals that give us the knowledge of what will transpire before Jesus returns, also recorded in the book of Revelation. Again, the Olivet Prophecy found in Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 answers the question asked by the disciples, “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” found in Matthew 24:3.

You should know, student, that Mark 13:11, where Jesus informs us “for they shall deliver you up to councils,” that Jesus is prophecying concerning the end of this age. Remember that Jesus says, “Take heed lest any man deceive you.”

Your man-made charts and laughing baby silliness do not impress or intimidate me. Better to discuss respectfully as mature Christians, don’t you think?

 

[studentoftheword]

Your man-made charts and laughing baby silliness do not impress or intimidate me. Better to discuss respectfully as mature Christians, don’t you think?

------Your Quote Here in your post to me -above --------
Be very careful, my friend---------

I say --------A Little threading tone here -by you -----trying to Intimidate=========

I say ---your showing with this statement ----
Better to discuss respectfully as mature Christians, don’t you think?[/QUOTE]

 

[cv5]

I say
All your doing is taking a Piece of Scripture here out of Context and twisting it to say what you want it to say -

Your words above are false. Be very careful, my friend. I did not take Scripture out of context or twist it in any way.

I would say you need an education. Here you go. The pre-trib rapture is boilerplate Biblical doctrine. There are no viable alternatives.

Search results for query: seals - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
Search results for query: harpazo - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

 

[Stach]

Stach -----I am patiently still waiting for your Scripture that says specifically ======

That the Holy Spirit will TELL ALL BELIEVERS what to say to the anti-Christ during the 7 year Tribulation -----

I’m so sorry I don’t get back to a lot of other people. Please forgive me for that one. The website seem to been shut down for a while and two I do a lot of work for the military I love talking about God so let me do a little bit of backtracking here on the form so I could get back to everybody. I love you guys too. Trust me I do I just don’t agree with you.

 

[Stach]

Stach -----I am patiently still waiting for your Scripture that says specifically ======

That the Holy Spirit will TELL ALL BELIEVERS what to say to the anti-Christ during the 7 year Tribulation -----

I am pretty sure you know the Bible as well as I do and there is a verse in two places in the Bible that clearly say we are not supposed to premeditate anything we are to say to the antichrist until we let the Holy Spirit speak through us. So I can tell you what I might want to say to him which will probably get me punched in the mouth by him, but I’m just going to stand there and pray and pray and wait for the Holy Spirit to get in his face. Then I’ll wave to you guys up in the clouds lol

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I find it most interesting that before Chapter 4 goes more into detail to explain how the dead Christians will be resurrected and the idea of a [Caught Up or Away] is suggested, Paul mentions the Second Coming of Christ in Chapter 3 (my attachment).

So Paul uses same language as Jesus in Matthew 24 to introduce the Second Coming and then people turn Chapter 4 into an ESCAPE MISSION.

Odd how people view the Word of God without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...but every time I tell people what I expect is going to happen next and use a Bible verse. They come back with raptor raptor raptor...

You must be thinking of someone who is obsessed with T-Rex or Jurassic Park.
You might as well start a thread on Dinosaurs in the Miscellaneous Section. Then people can freely talk about raptors.

The word is "Rapture" and it is perfectly acceptable and already within the Christian vocabulary. It is good to have one word represent TEN Words -- "caught up together to meet the Lord in the air". And since you reject the Rapture, your thread will simply contribute to more division. The Bible says that scoffers will come in the last days saying "Where is the promise of His coming?" So you've joined the band of scoffers.

 

[studentoftheword]

I am pretty sure you know the Bible as well as I do and there is a verse in two places in the Bible that clearly say we are not supposed to premeditate anything we are to say to the antichrist until we let the Holy Spirit speak through us.

Well------ I say to you -----

Ripley's Believe it OR NOT ------up to us individually -------

What does 1 Thessalonians 5:9 mean?

https://www.bibleref.com/1-Thessalonians/5/1-Thessalonians-5-9.html

1 Thessalonians 5:9, NLT: For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us.

Here, Paul explains why this readiness and awareness are so important. This is grounded in understanding that God does not intend wrath to the Thessalonian believers, but has saved them from the wrath he will pour out on earth during the tribulation.

Believers will experience complete deliverance from sin, corruption, and mortality at the rapture, when Jesus calls every Christian to be with him (1 Corinthians 15:51–54; Philippians 3:20–21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17).

Although Christians are saved now from the penalty of sin and its mastery, at the rapture Christians will be saved completely from the power and presence of sin.

All vestiges of sin will be removed from our bodies at that time.

As 1 John 3:2 and Philippians 3:20–21 point out, we will be like the Lord when we meet him. In his letter to the Ephesians Paul mentions the sealing of the Holy Spirit as "the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it" (Ephesians 1:14). See also Ephesians 4:30.


Context Summary
First Thessalonians 5:1–11 informs believers about the day of the Lord. This phrase refers both to the moment of the rapture as well as the seven-year tribulation period that follows the rapture.

The passage assures us that believers will not experience the tribulation.

The day of the Lord will commence unexpectedly, like the arrival of a thief at night. It is described as a time of darkness with dreadful consequences.
Unbelievers, identified as those who belong to the night, will be overtaken by destruction.

But believers are, symbolically, of the day not the night. They are not the objects of God's wrath, but are destined to receive a full rescue from the day of God's wrath.

In view of their exemption from the day of the Lord, believers ought to encourage and edify one another.



Chapter Summary
First Thessalonians chapter 5 reiterates that the rapture will occur quickly, catching the unbelieving world unprepared.

In contrast, Paul presents faithful Christians as those who are aware and ready for this event.

This passage uses the contrast of day versus night to highlight those differences.

Paul also completes his letter by offering various practical instructions. These include the need to be peaceful, hardworking, and forgiving. He also commends constant prayer and an attitude of joyfulness, before closing his letter with a command for this letter to be read aloud.

 

[Blade]

I find it most interesting that before Chapter 4 goes more into detail to explain how the dead Christians will be resurrected and the idea of a [Caught Up or Away] is suggested, Paul mentions the Second Coming of Christ in Chapter 3 (my attachment).

So Paul uses same language as Jesus in Matthew 24 to introduce the Second Coming and then people turn Chapter 4 into an ESCAPE MISSION.

Odd how people view the Word of God without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

For me.... Escape... if not escape then why did God through Christ say "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. ". We know were not appointed to the wrath of God. Lot had to be gone for God said "as long as you are here I can do nothing". This time whats coming is on the whole world and all in it. No place to hide this time. Now we know the 144k are protected but no where does it even talk about the Church. So the 144k are protected just not the Church. As for Matt 24 and what Paul by the sweet holy Spirit said. Same language? All one has to do is put them side by side and yeah.. they do not match. What the holy Spirit forgot to tell us all will see Him and that angels will gather. And Matt 24 God left out dead rise then all believers change get caught up to be with the lord forever. One ALL see the other all do not see.

Yes we as man would say things like this and leave out parts.. GOD does not. Then 2nd thess falling away. There are some words people use with that as in "from the faith" things like that which if like some said "study more" we would know those extra words that get added are no where in the original texts. We would know falling or departure is the correct meaning. Yeah one can say unless the departure happen first is also the correct meaning. It was also used a few hundred years ago in the bible. Now for me it just flows. Well the Church is the only thing in the world keeping the lawless at bay. For we have been given all power all authority over the enemy.

Now can you not be watching do not believe and He comes you go anyway? To the world it will be as if something came and took people.. yet not a thief. To the world it will look like a thief came but Christ came took what is His. Watching found worthy to escape. Yes amen escape. What seems true for me...yet per mid post I can not find. So not here to tell anyone what lol some verse really means. Its just what I get when I read. Post pre mid I don't care.. He will keep His word and at some point I will be WHERE He is not Him where I am for that is not written. He is with the Father seated at His right hand. He made a place for me there. As He said "where I go you know and how I go you know". Can't twist that. So where I am you will be. Some will some wont.. remember we all made the free choice.

So watching looking up coming together as one praising loving showing the world JESUS is lord is what matters.

 

[Stach]

You must be thinking of someone who is obsessed with T-Rex or Jurassic Park.
You might as well start a thread on Dinosaurs in the Miscellaneous Section. Then people can freely talk about raptors.

The word is "Rapture" and it is perfectly acceptable and already within the Christian vocabulary. It is good to have one word represent TEN Words -- "caught up together to meet the Lord in the air". And since you reject the Rapture, your thread will simply contribute to more division. The Bible says that scoffers will come in the last days saying "Where is the promise of His coming?" So you've joined the band of scoffers.

As you can see, it was a spelling error, but if you wanna make fun of that instead of what I’m telling you go ahead

 

[Stach]

Well------ I say to you -----

Ripley's Believe it OR NOT ------up to us individually -------

What does 1 Thessalonians 5:9 mean?

https://www.bibleref.com/1-Thessalonians/5/1-Thessalonians-5-9.html

1 Thessalonians 5:9, NLT: For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us.

Here, Paul explains why this readiness and awareness are so important. This is grounded in understanding that God does not intend wrath to the Thessalonian believers, but has saved them from the wrath he will pour out on earth during the tribulation.

Believers will experience complete deliverance from sin, corruption, and mortality at the rapture, when Jesus calls every Christian to be with him (1 Corinthians 15:51–54; Philippians 3:20–21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17).

Although Christians are saved now from the penalty of sin and its mastery, at the rapture Christians will be saved completely from the power and presence of sin.

All vestiges of sin will be removed from our bodies at that time.

As 1 John 3:2 and Philippians 3:20–21 point out, we will be like the Lord when we meet him. In his letter to the Ephesians Paul mentions the sealing of the Holy Spirit as "the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it" (Ephesians 1:14). See also Ephesians 4:30.


Context Summary
First Thessalonians 5:1–11 informs believers about the day of the Lord. This phrase refers both to the moment of the rapture as well as the seven-year tribulation period that follows the rapture.

The passage assures us that believers will not experience the tribulation.

The day of the Lord will commence unexpectedly, like the arrival of a thief at night. It is described as a time of darkness with dreadful consequences.
Unbelievers, identified as those who belong to the night, will be overtaken by destruction.

But believers are, symbolically, of the day not the night. They are not the objects of God's wrath, but are destined to receive a full rescue from the day of God's wrath.

In view of their exemption from the day of the Lord, believers ought to encourage and edify one another.



Chapter Summary
First Thessalonians chapter 5 reiterates that the rapture will occur quickly, catching the unbelieving world unprepared.

In contrast, Paul presents faithful Christians as those who are aware and ready for this event.

This passage uses the contrast of day versus night to highlight those differences.

Paul also completes his letter by offering various practical instructions. These include the need to be peaceful, hardworking, and forgiving. He also commends constant prayer and an attitude of joyfulness, before closing his letter with a command for this letter to be read aloud.

First of all the good luck sign is a pagan symbol, so you’re already started out bad.

 

[Stach]

I can sit here and send you all the Bible verses leading up to 1 Thessalonians 5:9
But starting at 5:1. Which makes it very clear. This is talking about the coming of Jesus, the Christ in the seventh seal.
Basically, Paul says I do not have to remind you that's how it's going to be He also explained he's going to come like a thief in the night which means nobody was watching the door only the elect! How else can the thief get in? That's because I am the watchmen it's not going to happen on my watch. Then Paul talks about the New World order, and the birth pains that it's going through before the mortal wound. As a birth pains, get closer and closer, it's a sign for the elect. 5:4 warns the elect the ignorant will be blind we need to teach. Here i am! We are a child of light. We are the real church. To continue Paul will continue to tell you that not to fall asleep and be ignorant of what the Bible says. First and foremost the worst thing that Christian can do is worship Satan so let's get that out. I am here so you will not worship Satan when he comes first if you do it's on you! We are to put on our spiritual armor and get ready. So let's get to 5:9. That is not a warning to us, the elect, or to a Christian that loves the Lord we do not have to experience his wrath, but the others. Oh yeah, they will. So bottom line is my faith is unquestionable towards the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the Bible. I worry about nothing nada, but what I can tell you is very, very careful of The symbols you put out. You said good luck and put a symbol that is very pagan if I was not to know you and you gave me that symbol I would think you were not a Christian.

 

[studentoftheword]

Stach
And I can show you this in the Prophetic Book of Zechariah that Describes Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord He comes with His Saints and Angels to destroy this earth ---

so if the Rapture happens at the second Coming ---

How are the Saints coming with Him to due battle here on this earth -----there would be no saints in Heaven for Him to bring with him ---------and verse 5 says ------All The Holy Ones --it doesn't say Some of the Holy Ones -----It States ALL -----
all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

5 And you shall flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal, and you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] [a]God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

See this
Zechariah 14

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition


14 Behold, a day of the Lord is coming when the spoil [taken from you] shall be divided [among the victors] in the midst of you.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from the east to the west by a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

5 And you shall flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal, and you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] [a]God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day that there shall not be light; the glorious and bright ones [the heavenly bodies] shall be darkened.

7 But it shall be one continuous day, known to the Lord—not day and not night, but at evening time there shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern [Dead] Sea and half of them to the western [Mediterranean] Sea; in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one.

I say
This is ---- Timothy is visiting and giving encouragement here =====

verse 13 ---says Jesus brings ALL HIS SAINTS with Him ---------it doesn't say SOME Saints


1 Thessalonians 3:6-13

Amplified Bible

6 But now that Timothy has come back to us from [his visit with] you, and has brought us good news of your [steadfast] faith and [the warmth of your] love, and [reported] that you always think kindly of us and treasure your memories of us, longing to see us just as we long to see you,

7 for this reason, brothers and sisters, during all our distress and suffering we have been comforted and greatly encouraged about you because of your faith [your unwavering trust in God—placing yourselves completely in His loving hands];

8 because now we really live [in spite of everything], if you stand firm in the Lord.

9 For what [adequate] thanks can we offer to God for you in return for all the joy and delight we have before our God on your account?

10 We continue to pray night and day most earnestly that we may see you face to face, and may complete whatever may be imperfect and lacking in your faith.


11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and Jesus our Lord guide our steps to you [by removing the obstacles that stand in our way].

12 And may the Lord cause you to increase and excel and overflow in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;

13 so that He may strengthen and establish your hearts without blame in holiness in the sight of our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His [a]saints (God’s people).

I say ---Again If all believers are here during the tribulation how can Jesus Bring ALL SAINTS with Him ---

You think you have it all figured out but you really don't --------

You can dispute this all you want to ------you are free to believe what you want to believe ----as I am and there is much evidence that the Rapture happens First -----the Second Coming is another event -----

Chart with the scripture
https://www.blueletterbible.org/com...tion/rapture-and-second-coming-comparison.cfm

Diagram 5 "Rapture and Second Coming Comparison"

The nature of events at Christ's posttribulational coming (Mat 24:31)
radically differs from that of the rapture (1Th 4:16-17).

RAPTURE 1. Christ gathers His own (1Th 4:16-17) Second Coming -Angels gather the elect (Mat 24:31)

2. Resurrection is prominent (1Th 4:15-16) ---------Second Coming ---No mention of resurrection

3. Christ comes to reward (1Co 3:11-17; 2Co 5:10)---Second Coming -Christ comes to judge (Mat 25:31-46)

4. Believers depart the earth (1Th 4:15-17) --Second Coming-Unbelievers are taken away (Mat 24:37-41)

5. No talk of setting up the kingdom -Second Coming -Clear talk of Christ coming to set up a kingdom (Mat 25:31,34)

6. Believers receive glorified bodies (1Co 15:51-57)--Second Coming ------No one receives glorified bodies

7. Christ comes in the air (1Th 4:17) ---Second Coming-----Christ comes on the earth (Mat 25:31-32)

Additionally, parables in Matthew 13 confirm differences between the rapture and the final event of Christ's second coming

Rapture -----8. Believers are removed from among unbelievers (1Th 4:15-17)

Second Coming ------Tares (unblievers) taken out from among the wheat (believers) (Mat 13:30, 40)

Rapture -----9. Believers are removed from among unbelievers (1Th 4:17)

Second coming ------The bad fish (unbelievers) removed from among the good fish (Mat 25:31-32)

Taken from Dr. Richard Mayhue, “Why a Pretribulation Rapture?” in Christ’s Prophetic Plans, John MacArthur and Richard Mayhue (Chicago, Moody Publishers, 2012), 93-94.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say
Now ---you can dispute this all you want to ------

but you have not proven that the Saints will be here to go through the 7 Year Tribulation ------

The Scripture says that ALL SAINTS will Come With Jesus -------how can the Saints come with Jesus when they are here on this earth ----That just makes no sense ----what so ever ------in my book

I say
Just so you know ------- God made the 4 leaf clover -----not the pagans ----

Luck comes from Satan ------not from God ------in my view ------

 

[Stach]

Stach
And I can show you this in the Prophetic Book of Zechariah that Describes Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord He comes with His Saints and Angels to destroy this earth ---

so if the Rapture happens at the second Coming ---

How are the Saints coming with Him to due battle here on this earth -----there would be no saints in Heaven for Him to bring with him ---------and verse 5 says ------All The Holy Ones --it doesn't say Some of the Holy Ones -----It States ALL -----
all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

5 And you shall flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal, and you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] [a]God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

See this
Zechariah 14

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition


14 Behold, a day of the Lord is coming when the spoil [taken from you] shall be divided [among the victors] in the midst of you.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from the east to the west by a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

5 And you shall flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal, and you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] [a]God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day that there shall not be light; the glorious and bright ones [the heavenly bodies] shall be darkened.

7 But it shall be one continuous day, known to the Lord—not day and not night, but at evening time there shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern [Dead] Sea and half of them to the western [Mediterranean] Sea; in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one.

I say
This is ---- Timothy is visiting and giving encouragement here =====

verse 13 ---says Jesus brings ALL HIS SAINTS with Him ---------it doesn't say SOME Saints


1 Thessalonians 3:6-13

Amplified Bible

6 But now that Timothy has come back to us from [his visit with] you, and has brought us good news of your [steadfast] faith and [the warmth of your] love, and [reported] that you always think kindly of us and treasure your memories of us, longing to see us just as we long to see you,

7 for this reason, brothers and sisters, during all our distress and suffering we have been comforted and greatly encouraged about you because of your faith [your unwavering trust in God—placing yourselves completely in His loving hands];

8 because now we really live [in spite of everything], if you stand firm in the Lord.

9 For what [adequate] thanks can we offer to God for you in return for all the joy and delight we have before our God on your account?

10 We continue to pray night and day most earnestly that we may see you face to face, and may complete whatever may be imperfect and lacking in your faith.


11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and Jesus our Lord guide our steps to you [by removing the obstacles that stand in our way].

12 And may the Lord cause you to increase and excel and overflow in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;

13 so that He may strengthen and establish your hearts without blame in holiness in the sight of our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His [a]saints (God’s people).

I say ---Again If all believers are here during the tribulation how can Jesus Bring ALL SAINTS with Him ---

You think you have it all figured out but you really don't --------

You can dispute this all you want to ------you are free to believe what you want to believe ----as I am and there is much evidence that the Rapture happens First -----the Second Coming is another event -----

Chart with the scripture
https://www.blueletterbible.org/com...tion/rapture-and-second-coming-comparison.cfm

Diagram 5 "Rapture and Second Coming Comparison"

The nature of events at Christ's posttribulational coming (Mat 24:31)
radically differs from that of the rapture (1Th 4:16-17).

RAPTURE 1. Christ gathers His own (1Th 4:16-17) Second Coming -Angels gather the elect (Mat 24:31)

2. Resurrection is prominent (1Th 4:15-16) ---------Second Coming ---No mention of resurrection

3. Christ comes to reward (1Co 3:11-17; 2Co 5:10)---Second Coming -Christ comes to judge (Mat 25:31-46)

4. Believers depart the earth (1Th 4:15-17) --Second Coming-Unbelievers are taken away (Mat 24:37-41)

5. No talk of setting up the kingdom -Second Coming -Clear talk of Christ coming to set up a kingdom (Mat 25:31,34)

6. Believers receive glorified bodies (1Co 15:51-57)--Second Coming ------No one receives glorified bodies

7. Christ comes in the air (1Th 4:17) ---Second Coming-----Christ comes on the earth (Mat 25:31-32)

Additionally, parables in Matthew 13 confirm differences between the rapture and the final event of Christ's second coming

Rapture -----8. Believers are removed from among unbelievers (1Th 4:15-17)

Second Coming ------Tares (unblievers) taken out from among the wheat (believers) (Mat 13:30, 40)

Rapture -----9. Believers are removed from among unbelievers (1Th 4:17)

Second coming ------The bad fish (unbelievers) removed from among the good fish (Mat 25:31-32

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Are you wrapped your theory people? Please explain this.

 

[Stach]

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Chew on those verses, and let me know what you think

 

[studentoftheword]

Stach -----Chew on this and explain it ---------Jesus is bringing all the Saints with Him on His Second Coming -------how can He do that if the Saints are on the earth going through the 7 year Tribulation -?????



13 so that He may strengthen and establish your hearts without blame in holiness in the sight of our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His [a]saints (God’s people).

5 And you shall flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal, and you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] [a]God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him.

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The Scripture you quote is from Ezekiel 13 ---which is about False prophets ----which there are many in the World today ---- have no idea how this has anything to do with what I posted -----?????????????????

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

9 For God did not destine us for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
^
This has absolutely nothing to do with Tribulation or Rapture. It means we won't spend Eternity in Hell.