Rapture

[RichMan]

Very good answer which leads me to the next question. I will agree with that answer but it is a future scenario so to speak avoid the electoral face very shortly. So please stick with me an answer what this verse means. Mark 13:9
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

The reason I ask this is because this definitely is the future and NOT like 70ad this is way way deeper into the future. Like right now!

This is Mark repeating what Luke said.
So my answer applies here also.

 

[RichMan]

They are the saints who get saved AFTER the rapture.

There is no way to prove that with Scripture.

 

[RichMan]

That would be the nation of Israel…

The nation of Israel will not believe until they see Jesus returning.

 

[oyster67]

So what about those saints the anti-christ makes war on for 1260 days?

Yes. We call them tribulation saints because they missed the rapture and came in the hard way. Many will literally lose their heads. Others are Jews who will not come in until the last possible moment. The Church wiil not have to face the guillotine (head-chopper-offer.) We will be going up for the big wedding in the sky (like the Bible says.)

 

[oyster67]

Luke 12:11-12

New King James Version



11 “Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. 12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
Would you kindly explain what the Bible is talking about here if it is not the elect

Yes, I will. And you are correct about it referring to the elect (which includes the Church BTW.)
Many Christians down through the ages have been brought before magistrates and authorities and been told to renounce their faith. God has and will empower us and the Spirit has and will continue to give us courage and words. This is not just a future thing. This is a now thing.

 

[Stach]

Yes, I will. And you are correct about it referring to the elect (which includes the Church BTW.)
Many Christians down through the ages have been brought before magistrates and authorities and been told to renounce their faith. God has and will empower us and the Spirit has and will continue to give us courage and words. This is not just a future thing. This is a now thing.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Do you know I humbly disagree with you? This is a future prediction for the elect. That is how I read it. The abomination is not standing in Jerusalem yet so it’s future and it is coming

 

[Stach]

This is Mark repeating what Luke said.
So my answer applies here also.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

OK, please pray on this

 

[oyster67]

To me, the Bible is very clear regarding the timing of Jesus Christ's return. Something needs to happen first before that glorious event happens. So what does the Bible say about our gathering back to Christ? Well let’s see:

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV)

We agree about the timing of the second coming and the events of the tribulation, but the tribulation period is the time of God's wrath, and the Church is not appointed to God's wrath. Rather, we see the Church in Heaven (Rev 19) attending a wedding before she returns with Christ at His second coming. 1 Thess 4 explains how she got up there.
The Rapture occurs before the tribulation and second coming.

 

[Stach]

Are you a Jew? Which tribe?

No, sir, I am not a Jew.
Although when I did my blood test, it came back Polish/German/Jew/Irish
No, I’m a Christian that tribe came over to caucus mountains and settled in Europe
I’m a gentile

 

[Stach]

You are not yet even at eschatology 101. Take some time and do your homework. First. Then we can discuss.

Lol I don’t know what that means but if you’re the boss, I say yes, sir
That’s military training

 

[Stach]

We agree about the timing of the second coming and the events of the tribulation, but the tribulation period is the time of God's wrath, and the Church is not appointed to God's wrath. Rather, we see the Church in Heaven (Rev 19) attending a wedding before she returns with Christ at His second coming. 1 Thess 4 explains how she got up there.
The Rapture occurs before the tribulation and second coming.

I just can’t get over this rapture talk
Is there any Christian church I can go on and talk to people that don’t care about the rapture
I just know that Brazil is about ready to collapse. I have a lot of inside information.
I also know Russia is about ready to completely decimate Ukraine in a blitzkrieg
And everybody wants to talk about the rapture. I’m sorry I don’t get it.

 

[oyster67]

Do you know I humbly disagree with you?

Humble is good.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

This is a future prediction for the elect.

It is a future prediction for Israel.

The abomination is not standing in Jerusalem yet so it’s future and it is coming

Correct.

And everybody wants to talk about the rapture. I’m sorry I don’t get it.

We love you, Stan. We really do want you to get it.

 

[studentoftheword]

Stach -----I am patiently still waiting for your Scripture that says specifically ======

That the Holy Spirit will TELL ALL BELIEVERS what to say to the anti-Christ during the 7 year Tribulation -----

 

[cv5]

I also know Russia is about ready to completely decimate Ukraine in a blitzkrieg

That's the chatter that I have been hearing.....

 

[Yoke-Fellow]

I just can’t get over this rapture talk
Is there any Christian church I can go on and talk to people that don’t care about the rapture
I just know that Brazil is about ready to collapse. I have a lot of inside information.
I also know Russia is about ready to completely decimate Ukraine in a blitzkrieg
And everybody wants to talk about the rapture. I’m sorry I don’t get it.

I don’t believe in the rapture, either—just one Second Coming.

 

[Yoke-Fellow]

Stach -----I am patiently still waiting for your Scripture that says specifically ======

That the Holy Spirit will TELL ALL BELIEVERS what to say to the anti-Christ during the 7 year Tribulation -----

Actually, we won’t know. It will be the Holy Spirit Himself that will speak through His Elect.

"But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

- Mark 13:11 (NKJV)

 

[oyster67]

I don’t believe in the rapture, either—just one Second Coming.

At least you are not promoting some weird post-trib yo-yo rapture.

Do you believe that the Marriage of the Church Bride will be in Heaven, and we shall return with Him at His second coming?

Rev 19
5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Jude 1:4
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”

 

[Evmur]

I can tell you that the pre-trib rapture team has won the debate/engagement.....

Every-Single-Time.
And there have been dozens and dozens of times.

It's not even close......

... kid yourself

 

[oyster67]

... kid yourself

We've almost got you, Evmur!

 

[studentoftheword]

YOUR QUOTE -----Actually, we won’t know. ======

I say ========Ya!!!!!! that is just it and you can't give a Scripture that says that either ---cause there is none ---you are taking Scripture out of Context ===Satan has you duped -----

The Tribulation is for unbelievers only --------

and the last line of this Scripture tells you that --------this is speaking of unbelievers who make it through will be saved ---Believers are already saved ---no need to be saved again ----think about that ---

13 You will be hated by everyone because of [your association with] My name, but the one who [patiently perseveres empowered by the Holy Spirit and] endures to the end, he will be saved.
-
Your Quote here

Mark 13:11 (NKJV)

But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

I say
All your doing is taking a Piece of Scripture here out of Context and twisting it to say what you want it to say -

This is the whole Scripture in Context -----

This scripture is describing what has to happen before the end comes -----this is not dealing with the tribulation itself ---Jesus is just describing what must happen before the Tribulation comes ---and He is telling His Disciples to be careful --as many will persecute them and beat them but this is not a sign of the end ===they are to expect to be persecuted ----and rely on the Holy Spirit to speak through them ---------

Mark 13 is known as the Olivet Discorurse

Things to Come

13 As He was coming out of the temple [grounds], one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look what [a]wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!”

2 Jesus replied to him, “You see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left on another which will not be [b]torn down!”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

4 “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be fulfilled?”

5 Jesus began to say to them, “Be careful and see to it that no one misleads you.

6 Many will come in My name [misusing My name or claiming to be the Messiah], saying, ‘I am He!’ and will deceive and mislead many.

7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed (frightened, troubled); these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

8 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will be famines.

These things are the beginning of the [c]birth pangs [the intolerable anguish and suffering].

9 “But be on your guard; they will turn you over to courts, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand [as accused] before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.

10 The gospel [that is, the good news regarding the way of salvation] must first be preached to all the [Gentile] nations.

11 When they take you and turn you over [to the court], do not worry beforehand about what to say, but say whatever is given to you [by God] in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit [who will speak through you].

12 Brother will betray brother to [be put to] death, and a father [will hand over] his child; and children will rise up and take a stand against parents and have them put to death.

13 You will be hated by everyone because of [your association with] My name, but the one who [patiently perseveres empowered by the Holy Spirit and] endures to the end, he will be saved.

I say
Notice Where the Rapture is placed ------see red arrow --------in this Chart ------Believer are gone---before the tribulation