Rapture true or false

[ATG]

Psalm1 said:
Ask them " what is the setting for EVERY RAPTURE VERSE"


Your quote;
"Great tribulation and wrath upon the godly all over the earth, with great worshipping and rejoicing in the beast."


All rapture verses are normal life, everyday life, and commerce, marriage, and planning for the future.

Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet.

The persecutions of the Caesars were only within the imperial bounds of Rome.

The ONLY RAPTURE verse in a trib setting is Rev 14;14.
Which is NOT THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH.

It's the Lord's harvest of His church from the earth at the end of this age. It's immediately followed by the Lord's angels gathering the ungodly appointed for wrath: The Lord divides the wheat and the tares, by the rapture of His saints from among the ungodly.

Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The church will first be harvested amidst the last days of great tribulation and persecution upon the godly, and will be immediately followed by the greatest tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the ungodly, since the days of Noah.

The rapture of the church is both post-trib and pre-trib, being divided by opposing tribulation and wrath.

There are two kinds of tribulation and wrath upon people on earth: That of the ungodly upon the godly, and that of God upon the ungodly.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Rom 2:7
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The godly are appointed to the wrath of ungodly man, and the ungodly are appointed to the wrath of the righteous God.

 

[ewq1938]

And there is no repentance from the grave/QUOTE]


The passage shows that is false.

 

[ATG]

Quote;
""...are you saying there is no rapture at His return, because it's not found in Rev 19? If so, first learn what this means:

Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Prophecy of Scripture is made known in parts from all Scripture together. Especially that of the Lord's coming to receive His people, and govern all the earth.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."""

I posted there is no rapture in Rev 19 at the second coming.

I posted there is no prophecy of Scripture limited to only one part of Scripture.

There is no virgin birth in Is 53 at His first coming.

 

[ATG]

ATG said:
And there is no repentance from the grave/


The passage shows that is false.

Your interpretation of the passage says it's false.

I only argue what Scriptures says, or doesn't say. I don't argue against people's personal beliefs.

 

[ewq1938]

Your interpretation of the passage says it's false.

And yours in reverse.

I only argue what Scriptures says, or doesn't say. I don't argue against people's personal beliefs.

Ditto to you.

 

[Psalm1]

Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet.

The persecutions of the Caesars were only within the imperial bounds of Rome.



It's the Lord's harvest of His church from the earth at the end of this age. It's immediately followed by the Lord's angels gathering the ungodly appointed for wrath: The Lord divides the wheat and the tares, by the rapture of His saints from among the ungodly.

Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The church will first be harvested amidst the last days of great tribulation and persecution upon the godly, and will be immediately followed by the greatest tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the ungodly, since the days of Noah.

The rapture of the church is both post-trib and pre-trib, being divided by opposing tribulation and wrath.

There are two kinds of tribulation and wrath upon people on earth: That of the ungodly upon the godly, and that of God upon the ungodly.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Rom 2:7
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The godly are appointed to the wrath of ungodly man, and the ungodly are appointed to the wrath of the righteous God.

Your reply to Rev 14:14 the gathering of the Jews;
""It's the Lord's harvest of His church from the earth at the end of this age. It's immediately followed by the Lord's angels gathering the ungodly appointed for wrath: The Lord divides the wheat and the tares, by the rapture of His saints from among the ungodly.""

There is nothing there of the church.
The church is not the harvest of 144,000 firstfruit Jews.

Since you guys can not place the 144,000 FIRSTFRUIT JEWS correctly, but change it for doctrine, you can not rightly divide Rev 14.
You have no understanding of "the time of the Gentiles completed", or the regrafting of the Jews in romans 11.

Then you attempt to misplace JESUS prophecy of "BEFORE THE FLOOD, NORMAL LIFE, EVERYDAY LIFE, PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE, MARRIAGE"
And insert that Jesus is wrong.
Jesus should have said " no normal life, no commerce, no everyday life, but saints running from cave to cave.

You also believe Jesus was wrong about every human on the planet receives the mark...not written in the book of life.

See, this is where postribber omissions carry you.
SMH.

 

[Psalm1]

Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet.

The persecutions of the Caesars were only within the imperial bounds of Rome.



It's the Lord's harvest of His church from the earth at the end of this age. It's immediately followed by the Lord's angels gathering the ungodly appointed for wrath: The Lord divides the wheat and the tares, by the rapture of His saints from among the ungodly.

Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The church will first be harvested amidst the last days of great tribulation and persecution upon the godly, and will be immediately followed by the greatest tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the ungodly, since the days of Noah.

The rapture of the church is both post-trib and pre-trib, being divided by opposing tribulation and wrath.

There are two kinds of tribulation and wrath upon people on earth: That of the ungodly upon the godly, and that of God upon the ungodly.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Rom 2:7
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The godly are appointed to the wrath of ungodly man, and the ungodly are appointed to the wrath of the righteous God.

QUOTE
""Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet""

Jesus said normal life at the rapture.
Your model that you defend futility has the exact opposite.

Why do you think postribbers change "like manner" in acts 1 ?

"Like manner"
Your model is OPPOSITE the prophecy of "like manner" in Acts 1.

Plain bizarre.

 

[Psalm1]

I posted there is no prophecy of Scripture limited to only one part of Scripture.

There is no virgin birth in Is 53 at His first coming.

Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Prophecy of Scripture is made known in parts from all Scripture together. Especially that of the Lord's coming to receive His people, and govern all the earth.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."""

Thank you Jesus for showing us the pretrib rapture

 

[Psalm1]

I posted there is no prophecy of Scripture limited to only one part of Scripture.

There is no virgin birth in Is 53 at His first coming.

Good point.
There are also no postrib rapture verses anywhere in the bible.
I have asked people with your same doctrine to post one.
So far none.

 

[Psalm1]

Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet.

The persecutions of the Caesars were only within the imperial bounds of Rome.



It's the Lord's harvest of His church from the earth at the end of this age. It's immediately followed by the Lord's angels gathering the ungodly appointed for wrath: The Lord divides the wheat and the tares, by the rapture of His saints from among the ungodly.

Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The church will first be harvested amidst the last days of great tribulation and persecution upon the godly, and will be immediately followed by the greatest tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the ungodly, since the days of Noah.

The rapture of the church is both post-trib and pre-trib, being divided by opposing tribulation and wrath.

There are two kinds of tribulation and wrath upon people on earth: That of the ungodly upon the godly, and that of God upon the ungodly.

Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Rom 2:7
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The godly are appointed to the wrath of ungodly man, and the ungodly are appointed to the wrath of the righteous God.

QUOTE
"Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet.
The persecutions of the Caesars were only within the imperial bounds of Rome."

Ahem....Jesus has the upper hand against false beliefs.
It was HE that prophesied the setting of the rapture.
Jesus TOLD US what it will be like at the rapture.

Either believe the bible or continue to go against the word of God.

As I have forced every postribber to do.

 

[Psalm1]

Why is it that so many churches, doctrines, people, want to follow the teachings of the rapture when in so many places God tell us it is a lie?
Matthew 13 (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Matthew 24
The Return of the Son of Man
(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
You can also find this in Mark 13 and Luke 21.
To be continued .

Lol.
No wonder you are confused.
You quoted a verse , that, Jesus, being stationery in heaven, sends Angels in heaven, to gather saints that are already in heaven.

Yes that is not the rapture, nor can it possibly be.

I may be the only one on this board starting from a biblical position.
That biblical position is....Jesus has a bride and he gathers that bride, And that is the rapture.

all of eschatology is centered on the dynamic of the bride and the bridegroom.

That is why the Bible ends with the bride calling out to the groom.

I have yet to see anybody on this board that understands the basis and foundation for all of end times, is the bride and the bridegroom.

 

[ATG]

Your reply to Rev 14:14 the gathering of the Jews;

It's a gathering of the sealed people of God, which are now only in Christ Jesus. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but only redeemed saints of God.

Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

NT prophecy cannot contradict NT doctrine of Christ.

If there is Christian Jew not Greek, then there is Christian circumcision and uncircumcision. Segregating Christian Jews from Gentiles, is the schism of commanding circumcision in the body of Christ.

Since you guys can not place the 144,000 FIRSTFRUIT JEWS correctly,

Jas 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1Co 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Firstfruits of both Jews and Greeks born again into the body of Christ.

but change it for doctrine, you can not rightly divide Rev 14.

No one can rightly interpret Rev 14, by changing doctrine of Christ.

You have no understanding of "the time of the Gentiles completed",

The time of the nations ruled by unjust men, will end at the Lord's return. He will resurrect and rapture all His firstfruit harvest from the earth, defeat the armies of the nations, and govern all nations with His resurrected saints.

The time of nations ruling themselves without Christ, will end with Christ ruling all nations without injustice.

or the regrafting of the Jews in romans 11.

Romans 11 is an assurance to believing Jews being grafted in again, and a rebuke to Gentile Christians believing no Jew could believe and be grafted in again...

Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The Jews were first grafted again into the Israel of God, when Mary Magdalene believed Jesus' resurrection and confessed Him Lord. The first record of Gentiles grafted into God's Israel, was the Roman Cornelius and his house.

You also believe Jesus was wrong about every human on the planet receives the mark...not written in the book of life.

You believe wrong that every human on the planet receives the mark, which Jesus never says.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All that dwell upon the earth, whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life, shall worship him.

The Scripture does not say, All dwelling upon the earth are names not written in the book of life and shall worship him.

 

[ATG]

QUOTE
""Not with worldwide persecution of the saints of God, that is personally organized and executed under one false christ and false prophet""

Jesus said normal life at the rapture.

As normal as it was in the days of Noah before the flood...

Why do you think postribbers change "like manner" in acts 1 ?

The only ones I know of, that change in like manner in Acts 1, are the amils, that say the Lord has already returned to rule 'in spirit'.

It's called spiritualizing away the literal truth of prophecy.

 

[ATG]

Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Prophecy of Scripture is made known in parts from all Scripture together. Especially that of the Lord's coming to receive His people, and govern all the earth.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."""

Thank you Jesus for showing us the pretrib rapture

Amen.

 

[ATG]

Good point.

Good confirmation.

There are also no postrib rapture verses anywhere in the bible.

There isn't another rapture during, nor after, the great tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the earth.

The only rapture is at His return to earth, when He ends the tribulation and wrath of the beast upon the saints.

 

[Psalm1]

Good confirmation.


There isn't another rapture during, nor after, the great tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the earth.

The only rapture is at His return to earth, when He ends the tribulation and wrath of the beast upon the saints.

Lol
During the 7 yr gt;
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
After the gt:

Rev19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Gods word.
Anyone that changes it....
The plagues of rev falls on them.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

What Part of rev 14 and Rev 19 do you change?
We know you change it. What part do you change to make those 2 comings into one?

You were duped friend.
Better stay totally away from rev.

 

[Psalm1]

Good confirmation.


There isn't another rapture during, nor after, the great tribulation and wrath of the Lord upon the earth.

The only rapture is at His return to earth, when He ends the tribulation and wrath of the beast upon the saints.

My statement was you do not have a verse.
....as your post affirms.

 

[Psalm1]

Amen.

I posted "thank You for showing us the pretrib rapture"

Your reply
"Amen"

 

[Psalm1]

As normal as it was in the days of Noah before the flood...



The only ones I know of, that change in like manner in Acts 1, are the amils, that say the Lord has already returned to rule 'in spirit'.

It's called spiritualizing away the literal truth of prophecy.

Nope.
In Acts 1 " like manner"
Postribs get schooled on a no brainer.
Jesus solo, in the sky, ascending upwards.
Vivid pretrib rapture depiction.

Postribs trying to defend the lie of only one coming need about 5 additives.
Or they go into overgeneralizations with egg on their face trying to keep up with us.

Postribbers on acts one, "see that is exactly like Rev 19!"

What a hoot.
What must they add to acts 1 "return in like manner?"
Horses
Jesus on a horse.
Jesus with a robe dipped in blood.
Jesus in vengeance.
Millions of saints on horses blackening the sky.
Earth practically destroyed.
All the plagues finished.
The 144,000 finished.
The Jewish harvest of rev 14 finished.

....basically NOTHING of acts 1.

Postribbers listening to false teachers big time.

 

[Psalm1]

As normal as it was in the days of Noah before the flood...



The only ones I know of, that change in like manner in Acts 1, are the amils, that say the Lord has already returned to rule 'in spirit'.

It's called spiritualizing away the literal truth of prophecy.

Jesus said " future tribulation such as the world has never seen, and never will see again".
A destroyed earth.

You say no.
You say " As normal as it was in the days of Noah before the flood..."