Rapture true or false

[Pilgrimshope]

Maybe there is one out there that uses Rapture. Either "caught up" or "raptured" would be a valid translation.



The word is also translated as pluck, pull, take, as it appears in other verses as well.

The term “ rapture “ is used by people not the Bible , to describe the wonderful moment Jesus returns to gather his people in glory. That’s spoken of in the Bible

“a moment of rapture will be this moment

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its a descriptive term used for the moment Jesus returns to gsther even those who had died to be together with him forever. It will be a “rapturous “moment … a moment of pure joy and pleasure for his people.

it isnt a biblical term but a word people use to describe the feeling of that wonderful moment . Then other people create a whole pre tribulation doctrine that’s not correct for its timing .

i believe the ops issue is with a pre tribulation rapture and then seven year period of satans rule on earth ect tbat ole chestnut

 

[Psalm1]

The AC does not make the covenant, he confirms it, or he "strengthens it".

Splitting hairs

 

[Psalm1]

The term “ rapture “ is used by people not the Bible , to describe the wonderful moment Jesus returns to gather his people in glory. That’s spoken of in the Bible

“a moment of rapture will be this moment

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its a descriptive term used for the moment Jesus returns to gsther even those who had died to be together with him forever. It will be a “rapturous “moment … a moment of pure joy and pleasure for his people.

it isnt a biblical term but a word people use to describe the feeling of that wonderful moment . Then other people create a whole pre tribulation doctrine that’s not correct for its timing .

i believe the ops issue is with a pre tribulation rapture and then seven year period of satans rule on earth ect tbat ole chestnut

In the Latin Bible.
Not going away.
Harpozu

 

[Falconn007]

There is an entire BOOK of Revelation written in Spirit by John that nullifies the carnal-rapture-myth.

Here it is stated by John :

Revelation 1:9
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

>>>> Why bother reading revelation if you are not in tribulation with John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation.


Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples and encouraging them to continue in the faith. “We must endure many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

>>>> How can anyone possibly endure many hardships if they are falsely to be raptured !?!

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church.

>>>> how can any rejoice in sufferings for you[God] if they are not here to suffer !?!

John 16:33
I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”

>>>> How can anyone who is In the world have tribulation, if you believe in the false rapture myth !?!

1 Peter 5:9
Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering.

>>>> How can anyone standing firm in faith, if they are not facing any firey test to stand firm , to begin with !?!?

Isaiah 41:10
Do not fear, for I am with you; do not be afraid, for I am your God. I will strengthen you; I will surely help you; I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.

>>>> The rapture myth most surely promotes carnal FEAR.

Not to mention this Holy Scriptures :

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

YEAH , I know the ignorant argument rapturous will vomit out, that they are born again of Spirit so this verse does not apply to them.... OH really!?!?!? ... then what about this one !?!

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God

There is that word again 'enduring' as in being born again and suffering for the Word of God.

Here is why Faithful Believers must suffer and will not be given a 'get out of sin-jail for free card-rapture-carnal-myth' :

Hebrews 2:10
God, for whom and through whom everything was made, chose to bring many children into glory. And it was only right that he should make Jesus, through his suffering, a perfect leader, fit to bring them into their salvation.

1 Peter 4:19
Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

>>>> carnal-rapturist are not included in "THOSE", should they not repent from this LIE , this is their place :

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

It is obvious that false "Christ" are those who called themselves christian in name only but never intend to suffer for their Christ nor express the outward the Spirit in Truth against their false claims of the carnal-rapture-myth , because they live in worldly fear.

 

[studentoftheword]

What will the Rapture really be like? In this eye-opening interview, Dr. David Jeremiah sits down with Sheila Walsh to unpack “The Great Disappearance” — the next prophetic event on God’s calendar.

The Great Disappearance: What Will Happen at the Rapture? | Dr. David Jeremiah & Sheila Walsh

 

[Gideon300]

Even at the grave, you will be in the rapture.
The dead IN CHRIST rise first!!!!!

Well said. Not that I plan on dying. So far, so good.

 

[Edify]

https://soothkeep.info/irenaeus-ground-zero-for-the-rapture-controversy-in-the-early-church

 

[rrcn]

What is the rapture???

Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.

What scriptures support this conclusion?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In the Latin Bible.
Not going away.
Harpozu

Harpozu

yeah …. Rapio is the word latin translators used for the original Greek term harpozu, meaning “ snatch up or sieze “…. English just translates it o to English and the English word rapture doesn’t fit the Greek is my point . Of course Latins used a Latin term to translate the greek into Latin ehats your point ?

Greek to English translates like it is in the kjv because the Latin word “ rapio “ doesn’t fit the greek to English it fits the greek to Latin .

 

[ewq1938]

The term “ rapture “ is used by people not the Bible

No, the bible uses it using Greek, harpazo.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, the bible uses it using Greek, harpazo.

That is a Greek word meaning “to snatch or catch up something or someone “ ….the same meaning the phrase in kjv uses

rapio is a Latin word which was used to translate the original Greek word which means “ to snatch up “ into Latin .


They didn’t use the term “ catch up or snatch up “ they used the word “ to “rapio “ in tbier language to communicate the idea of snatching or catching something up …..

English speaking people say “ to catch up or snatch up “ to communicate the original Greek words meaning into the English language not Latin.

look up how it’s used in English . And its medieval roots and how it was used in Medieval Latin v how it’s been used and applied in English. That’s where the “ rapture “ teachings come from some Christians call the day Christ returns to catch up and lay hold of his people forever at the resurrection ….” The rapture “

whether we say “caught up “ snatched up “ in modern English language. Or in Medieval Latin Rapio or raptura, or even if we spoke Ancient Greek we would say harpazo.

The meaning is the same it’s communicating a concept or idea , a meaning . The words have to be different. Because they are different languages with different words communicating the same ideas and concepts ……

it doesn’t matter what we call it what matters is what’s being communicated .

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

Call it the Rapio or raptura in Medieval Latin harpazo in Ancient Greek or say it like it’s stated here in English . The only factor that plays is do we understand the language being spoken or written correctly ?

harpazo only means Rapio in medeival Latin it doesn’t mean the same as the English word “ rapture “ in English harpazo means to catch up or sieze something lay hold of it ect

 

[ATG]

Maybe there is one out there that uses Rapture. Either "caught up" or "raptured" would be a valid translation.



The word is also translated as pluck, pull, take, as it appears in other verses as well.

I'm game. I like your strictness.

When used for the ascension of the saints at Jesus' return, it's always translated caught up...

And strictly speaking, it would not be translated 'rapture' from the Greek. It's only an English word for great pleasure. Harpazo always means a physical taking, whether for good or bad. (Harpies)

Writing 'rapture' into the verse, is a false trasnlation, that would be a later doctrinal insert, after the fact of being traditionally called the rapture of the church.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm game. I like your strictness.

When used for the ascension of the saints at Jesus' return, it's always translated caught up...

Always? What of some that use "taken up" and I saw one using "caught away".

And strictly speaking, it would not be translated 'rapture' from the Greek. It's only an English word for great pleasure.

That is only one of it's english definitions not it's sole meaning.

Harpazo

always means a physical taking, whether for good or bad. (Harpies)

Writing 'rapture' into the verse, is a false trasnlation,

No, it would be fully accurate. Plus, it was already written using rapture, just the greek version.

that would be a later doctrinal insert, after the fact of being traditionally called the rapture of the church.

No. it would not be. The word is one of many correct choices, devoid of any doctrine.

 

[ATG]

Always? What of some that use "taken up" and I saw one using "caught away".

Once again, discipline-wise, I didn't make a perfect search, but only glanced for anything other than caught up.

Where is the rapture of the saints translated taken up? I only know of the Lord's ascension being afterward referred as taken up.

And then Phillip being caught away from the Ethiopian...

No, it would be fully accurate. Plus, it was already written using rapture, just the greek version.

If you mean Harpazo is the Greek word, then that's not a translation 'version' .

The Greek Harpazo, being caught, taken, or stolen away, can never be properly translated into the English word rapture, which is an emotional word from being rapt. The closest possible translation would have to be 'rapted away', which is not a recognized verb, and would have to be made up specifically for where it doesn't belong.

It's simply a later Christian passion word used for the saints rising to meet the Lord in the air: Being rapt with attention, having raptured attention upon Him, whom they are being caught up to meet with in the air...

No. it would not be. The word is one of many correct choices, devoid of any doctrine.

It's manifestly doctrinal, since it's a doctrinal word, and is not a correct translation. And the doctrine of the rapture is disputed among Christians, so that incorrectly inserting it into the text, would be solely for doctrinal purposes alone.

It would be like translating a NT text with Trinity.

 

[Psalm1]

Well said. Not that I plan on dying. So far, so good.

Mee too

 

[Psalm1]

The term “ rapture “ is used by people not the Bible , to describe the wonderful moment Jesus returns to gather his people in glory. That’s spoken of in the Bible

“a moment of rapture will be this moment

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its a descriptive term used for the moment Jesus returns to gsther even those who had died to be together with him forever. It will be a “rapturous “moment … a moment of pure joy and pleasure for his people.

it isnt a biblical term but a word people use to describe the feeling of that wonderful moment . Then other people create a whole pre tribulation doctrine that’s not correct for its timing .

i believe the ops issue is with a pre tribulation rapture and then seven year period of satans rule on earth ect tbat ole chestnut

....only "correct" through your many omissions.

 

[Psalm1]

Once again, discipline-wise, I didn't make a perfect search, but only glanced for anything other than caught up.

Where is the rapture of the saints translated taken up? I only know of the Lord's ascension being afterward referred as taken up.

And then Phillip being caught away from the Ethiopian...



If you mean Harpazo is the Greek word, then that's not a translation 'version' .

The Greek Harpazo, being caught, taken, or stolen away, can never be properly translated into the English word rapture, which is an emotional word from being rapt. The closest possible translation would have to be 'rapted away', which is not a recognized verb, and would have to be made up specifically for where it doesn't belong.

It's simply a later Christian passion word used for the saints rising to meet the Lord in the air: Being rapt with attention, having raptured attention upon Him, whom they are being caught up to meet with in the air...


It's manifestly doctrinal, since it's a doctrinal word, and is not a correct translation. And the doctrine of the rapture is disputed among Christians, so that incorrectly inserting it into the text, would be solely for doctrinal purposes alone.

It would be like translating a NT text with Trinity.

Latin bible
".....qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus ....."
"Who are left behind, we will be snatched up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air"

Splitting hairs.
Are you also fearful of the word "trinity"

 

[Psalm1]

Maybe say "rapiemur"

Pronounced " rap eee mer"

Gets ridiculous.

 

[Gideon300]

The term “ rapture “ is used by people not the Bible , to describe the wonderful moment Jesus returns to gather his people in glory. That’s spoken of in the Bible

“a moment of rapture will be this moment

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its a descriptive term used for the moment Jesus returns to gsther even those who had died to be together with him forever. It will be a “rapturous “moment … a moment of pure joy and pleasure for his people.

it isnt a biblical term but a word people use to describe the feeling of that wonderful moment . Then other people create a whole pre tribulation doctrine that’s not correct for its timing .

i believe the ops issue is with a pre tribulation rapture and then seven year period of satans rule on earth ect tbat ole chestnut

The word rapture is simply the Latin translation of the Greek word found in the NT. It means to be caught up. Modern usage has attached that to emotion. It's the same with "missionary" which is the Latin word for apostle. So yes, indirectly "rapture" does appear in the Bible.

 

[ewq1938]

Once again, discipline-wise, I didn't make a perfect search, but only glanced for anything other than caught up.

Where is the rapture of the saints translated taken up?

(BBE) Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord.(BBE) Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord.

(DRB) (4:16) Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord.

I only know of the Lord's ascension being afterward referred as taken up.

It's the same meaning in English.

The Greek Harpazo, being caught, taken, or stolen away, can never be properly translated into the English word rapture

Wrong. They are synonyms.

It would be like translating a NT text with Trinity.

No. Both are biblical words found in the original texts but I won't debate the Trinity in this thread.