Question on Casting Lots

[Chester]

First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???

The church I pastor would use the lot in certain situations to ordain a leader/minister. We would typically take a vote of members when we need to ordain a minister. If there is a clear nominee from these votes that person will be ordained. If there are two or more people with identical or near identical numbers of votes we may use a lot to determine who to ordain. This is done in the context of prayer and fasting to seek God's guidance. Ministers are always chosen from within the current church members. We never "hire" a pastor from outside of the local fellowship.

 

[ChrisG33]

They simply took a vote to see who would replace Judas. You see something similar in Paul's epistle to Timothy, wherein Timothy was chosen by a council of elders.

Question - why do you say - you are uncomfortable with this?

The way I understand it, there is nothing in the verbiage that indicates they voted. They straight up cast lots.
I say that I’m uncomfortable with it because, while I might have questions, I still lean heavily towards the original reasons I posted that we should no longer practice it. If we have the Holy Spirit to lead us then that should be more than enough. But I still have questions. Mainly: If Peter was enough in the Spirit to prophecy in interpret scripture in Acts chapter 1 why’d they feel led to cast lots?

 

[Magenta]

Well, I think of what John wrote as the reason for writing his first letter:

“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that
you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:13 NKJV)

Speaker of gobbledygook Goober does not believe God's Word.

1 John 5 verses 11-13 + John 6 verse 47 ~ This is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[ChrisG33]

The church I pastor would use the lot in certain situations to ordain a leader/minister. We would typically take a vote of members when we need to ordain a minister. If there is a clear nominee from these votes that person will be ordained. If there are two or more people with identical or near identical numbers of votes we may use a lot to determine who to ordain. This is done in the context of prayer and fasting to seek God's guidance. Ministers are always chosen from within the current church members. We never "hire" a pastor from outside of the local fellowship.

Now see? This sounds very acceptable in light of Acts chapter 1. But the overall view of the church today is: you shouldn’t

 

[posthuman]

Then it really doesn't
matter what procedure
You use to arrive at the
Conclusion of your decision
Because every decision
is from the LORD.

Predestination?

John 10:1​

Amen amen, I say to you, ​

he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.​

 

[posthuman]

Then it really doesn't
matter what procedure
You use to arrive at the
Conclusion of your decision
Because every decision
is from the LORD.

Proverbs 16:33 says the whole disposing of the cast lot is of Him, not that every decision is, nor that nothing matters.

 

[GWH]

I agree.

Yay!

Does the agreement include the PP?

 

[GWH]

things that The Infinite One told us, we can take as 100% fully known to be sure.

No, even Paul did not claim to be the Pope.

 

[GWH]

Speaker of gobbledygook Goober does not believe God's Word.

1 John 5 verses 11-13 + John 6 verse 47 ~ This is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Of course, this assumes he has the opportunity to learn the Name of the Son of God.

 

[tourist]

Instead of casting lots I've been known to flip a coin. Heads I win, tails you lose.

 

[tourist]

I still maintain that the knowing with confidence that a Christian has of his Saviour and salvation is far more certain than the basis a punter putting his pounds/dollars on a particular horse to win has.

I used to put dollars on dogs at the track before Florida outlawed dog racing. No more Jai Alai either.

 

[tablet123]

First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???

Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Casting lots is a way to be fair without offense to anyone like who is going to do the dishes and the person chosen will not feel offended and not picked on as lesser or not as liked.

If coming from people if both men appeared equal they might do it that way but it might not be the best choice.

But this is coming from God who knows the heart so it would be the best choice.

It seems like casting lots would be a way to prove to everyone who God chose instead of taking Peter's word for it.

 

[posthuman]

No, even Paul did not claim to be the Pope.

well the pope ain't The Infinite One, so...

 

[GWH]

well the pope ain't The Infinite One, so...

Exactly, and neither was Paul and neither are you,
which is why Paul taught that we must live by faith (2Cor. 5:7).

 

[homwardbound]

First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???

Life itself from first day of anyone's birth is a gamble. Free choices are made, given us each to choose and see. I think they went by trust, Faith in rolling the dice, whether good or bad might not be good or bad, that remains on anyone's choice, Romans 14:21-23. Each gets to make that choice, freely, never forcefully or ever to get manipulated to do anything, and see to not use your freedom over others to make their conscience feel bad either. To me this I see, read all of Romans 14 please
Please see truth, to not purposely ever harm anyone else. That is the Love of God given us all. To have and care and share in compassion, giving everyone the free choice to choose
I see the freedom and in pas, I was a gambler, in casinos, saw it was not good for my soul. and since I saw and heard from God to let go, since it was not good for my soul and in trust I did let go, standing in trust to God, not self or anyone else. Also, I have Been an Alcoholic, yet left me over 40 years ago now. Seeing that was not good for my Soul either, so I saw accepted and left it. Noting this to you, seeing this to not try to get my first born flesh to behave, The Flesh Can't (Romans 8:3) read from verse 1 and the rest of that Chapter please.
God came in Son the Son and God as One, Won for us all on that cross in reconciliation first for us all. 2 Cor 5:17-20, John 1:29, John 19:30, he fulfilled Law and Prophets as said he came here to earth to do first (Matthew 5:17) he did it. Now is risen, as is reported by the Disciples to us all through the Bible, that is in the risen Son, where the new life more abundantly is given to us by God Father of in risen Son. those that believe God in Son as risen and are by Son forgiven to live the new life more abundantly, humbly, no more pride or quilt, those sins of arrogance dead in the death of Son for us all first. So, Ask Daddy, PaPa, Father fro this new life offered in the risen Son and be new, thank you.

 

[Haidabo]

John 10:1​

Amen amen, I say to you, ​

he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.​

And all of them
Who do not pay
Their vows
They made to God
The same is a thief
And a robber

 

[Haidabo]

Proverbs 16:33 says the whole disposing of the cast lot is of Him, not that every decision is, nor that nothing matters.

I particularly like the one
That says spare the rod
Spoil the child

 

[lrs68]

I have witnessed a church congregation vote in a Pastor and within weeks the church split. I have witnessed God sending a person to a body of Believers looking for a Shepherd and that body is still together this very day and there never was a vote taken. I have witnessed people that should [(not be)] ordained become ordained and people that obviously have the Calling of God to lead never be considered for ordination.

In my own life I have preached in congregations that knew God and are still on fire for God. I have also preached in places that were as absent from God and felt more like a morgue and a chiller ice box keeping a body ready for autopsy.

Some bodies gathered together are definitely going to get a real outcome from God should they go before in reverence looking for leadership and other congregations are going to end up with a sock puppet that wouldn't know God should God come down and present Himself.

The Disciples were on fire for God so God was going to provide them everything they needed including the replacement for Judas. But in my Walk with God I wait for the Doors to open after I go to God to lead me. He has never failed and He never will. Each door that opened was the exact specific place God had willed for my life to fulfill the works God had for me to do. I don't see doing it any other way.

 

[posthuman]

Exactly, and neither was Paul and neither are you,
which is why Paul taught that we must live by faith (2Cor. 5:7).

faith in The Infinite One, Jesus the Christ.

what He says, we may know is 100% true, with zero doubt.

therefore it is not true that, as you had said, none of us can know anything for certain.

 

[posthuman]

And all of them
Who do not pay
Their vows
They made to God
The same is a thief
And a robber

Matthew 5:36​

Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.​

​

the robber-thief crucified beside Him sat beside Him in heaven and shared His supper, that very day.