PREVENIENT GRACE: AN ARMINIAN ERROR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
PennEd said:
You did not answer the question. In fact I've had this same conversation maybe a half dozen times with others who are unable to answer the question.

Faith comes by hearing. It does. But why do some believe the Gospel upon hearing it, while others reject it?

I'm asking specifically, are you a better person than them? Are you wiser in understanding the Scriptures than them?

See this is THE exact point we have to ask ourselves when we boil this issue down to the bottom.

Why do YOU believe? WHERE did YOUR faith come from after you heard the Gospel?
Click to expand...
This question presupposes the reformed concept of total inability is true. Its philosophy question.
 
PennEd said:
You did not answer the question. In fact I've had this same conversation maybe a half dozen times with others who are unable to answer the question.

Faith comes by hearing. It does. But why do some believe the Gospel upon hearing it, while others reject it?

I'm asking specifically, are you a better person than them? Are you wiser in understanding the Scriptures than them?

See this is THE exact point we have to ask ourselves when we boil this issue down to the bottom.

Why do YOU believe? WHERE did YOUR faith come from after you heard the Gospel?
Click to expand...
What do you mean ' where did your faith come from ? Faith is not a super power .
 
PennEd said:
You did not answer the question. In fact I've had this same conversation maybe a half dozen times with others who are unable to answer the question.

Faith comes by hearing. It does. But why do some believe the Gospel upon hearing it, while others reject it?

I'm asking specifically, are you a better person than them? Are you wiser in understanding the Scriptures than them?

See this is THE exact point we have to ask ourselves when we boil this issue down to the bottom.

Why do YOU believe? WHERE did YOUR faith come from after you heard the Gospel?
Click to expand...
John 3:18-21

Does every man face the John 16:8-11 decision? Everyman who is saved must.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
  • Like
Reactions: throughfaith
PennEd said:
I guess you are in the ranks of those that squish and squirm instead of answering.

Why did YOU believe when you heard
Click to expand...
PennEd said:
Ah.. So you are just smarter than those who heard and don't believe.

Got it.

So I guess that's not boasting huh?
Click to expand...
Let's stick to the Scriptures. The boasting verse your talking about is referring to is this :
8For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9not of works , lest any man should boast.

So sticking to scripture ,and not clever little questions designed to worry someone into a position they have been tricked into believing also. What is the ' boasting ' about? The answer is' works ' So your question and the way you framed it does not apply and is irrelevant. Faith is not a work .
 
throughfaith said:
Let's stick to the Scriptures. The boasting verse your talking about is referring to is this :
8For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9not of works , lest any man should boast.

So sticking to scripture ,and not clever little questions designed to worry someone into a position they have been tricked into believing also. What is the ' boasting ' about? The answer is' works ' So your question and the way you framed it does not apply and is irrelevant. Faith is not a work .
Click to expand...
Nope. You are still dancing.

Why did YOU believe when you heard the Gospel?

That's not a trick question.
Why do you have difficulty answering it?

Just answer it please.
 
PennEd said:
Nope. You are still dancing.

Why did YOU believe when you heard the Gospel?

That's not a trick question.
Why do you have difficulty answering it?

Just answer it please.
Click to expand...
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
 
throughfaith said:
But you may not then take however ,the father revealing to Peter and then say this how we all have a similar experience ourselves .That God reveals the same way to us . I would simply stop where the bible stops and conclude this happened to Peter . Just like Paul had his revelation. We don't take what happened to Paul and assume this is how God always deals with everyone. The same with Lydia, John the baptist , Elijha, Jonas ect . People get real picky on which example ought to be ongoing and universally applied . This is inductive reasoning. " Jesus spoke to the disciples , we are disciples therefore Jesus is speaking to us " ..Or even worse Jesus speaks and he is speaking to us directly in every verse ect . "Israel ? Yeah well ,we're Israel blah ,blah "
Acts ? well yeah its Gods word ,so its all to us blah ,blah "
"Hebrews ? yeah I know its written to hebrews but it all applies to us "
"James , yeah I know he is writing to the 12 tribes ,but its all to us regardless "
Click to expand...
I think we can use common sense and assume certain eternal principles will apply based on context.
So if the Rock of Illumination by the Father of the saving nature of Jesus Christ is what the church will be built on, it does not change whether Peter had a revelation of Jesus being Christ the anointed one, the Messiah they had been taught about from the OT scriptures had arrived in the person of Jesus Christ, or if it is a revelation to Cornelius that Jesus will save them from their sins and grant them eternal life, two people with different backgrounds of information or concepts about what Jesus saving would mean, would not change the fact that the Faith that made them embrace the idea that Jesus is the one that God had ordained to save the world, the one who can change my life, is still the ROCK that the church will be built on. This faith adds another stone to the building.
 
throughfaith said:
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
Click to expand...
Still no answer.

You said you were "convinced" that the Gospel was true.

Why? Are you SMARTER than those who were NOT convinced?

If it wasn't YOUR intellect that convinced you, what was it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rosemaryx
Scribe said:
I think we can use common sense and assume certain eternal principles will apply based on context.
So if the Rock of Illumination by the Father of the saving nature of Jesus Christ is what the church will be built on, it does not change whether Peter had a revelation of Jesus being Christ the anointed one, the Messiah they had been taught about from the OT scriptures had arrived in the person of Jesus Christ, or if it is a revelation to Cornelius that Jesus will save them from their sins and grant them eternal life, two people with different backgrounds of information or concepts about what Jesus saving would mean, would not change the fact that the Faith that made them embrace the idea that Jesus is the one that God had ordained to save the world, the one who can change my life, is still the ROCK that the church will be built on. This faith adds another stone to the building.
Click to expand...
For the normative appropriation of salvation i believe we need to look at Paul's episties ..We know today as Jesus told us would be the case when the Holy Spirit would be given .
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scribe
PennEd said:
Still no answer.

You said you were "convinced" that the Gospel was true.

Why? Are you SMARTER than those who were NOT convinced?

If it wasn't YOUR intellect that convinced you, what was it?
Click to expand...
The bereans were more noble were they boastful ?

Their intellect did not convince them, what ever that means..No the scriptures convinced them.
Paul went about preaching the Gospel reasoning from the scriptures.
Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

I would say if someone believes they have made a wise decision .To obey from the heart To trust in Jesus is the ' smartest ' decision one could ever make . Amen
Romans 6:17

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 
throughfaith said:
I would say if someone believes they have made a wise decision .To obey from the heart To trust in Jesus is the ' smartest ' decision one could ever make . Amen
Click to expand...
Yup. So it's YOUR wisdom that got you to believe.

That's what I've been saying. You think it's you are WISER than those who couldn't figure it out.
 
I'm going to give ALL the credit to the Lord for saving me. There was NOTHING I did, or could do, to become His Child.

And I thank and love Him all the more for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scribe
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back