Presuming on the Blood

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 10, 2025
23
15
3
#1
A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
106
74
28
#2
A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.
Hello and yes ! I sometimes get confused by these things . Compare 1st John Ch 2 v 1 and Hebrews Ch 6 v 4-6 . Also 1st Corinthians Ch 5 and 2nd Corinthians Ch 2 v 1-11 . I'm sorry if u thought I was going to answer u and clear it all up for u , I'm guessing I made things worse 😜 anyone out there can help us please ?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,833
2,889
113
#3
can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?"
1.) That would be a willful act of sin... just like any other willful act of sin.

2.) That means you CAN do it, but it will have consequences.

3.) Christians life has a lot of ups and downs, and we make a lot of mistakes as we mature. But if a person just has NO concern for sin whatsoever... that's a good sign they may not be saved.
.
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
106
74
28
#4
1.) That would be a willful act of sin... just like any other willful act of sin.

2.) That means you CAN do it, but it will have consequences.

3.) Christians life has a lot of ups and downs, and we make a lot of mistakes as we mature. But if a person just has NO concern for sin whatsoever... that's a good sign they may not be saved.
.
Ah yes of course ! The case of David , Bathsheba and Urijah springs to mind . God did forgive David but there were some heavy consequences to David's actions .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
26,129
14,118
113
#5
The Christian life should be characterized by both a decreasing amount and decreasing severity (impact) of sin. While "sin is sin" and no sin is inherently "more sinful" than any other sin, the impacts of sin vary greatly. A genuine Christian who has repented of known sin will not lightly commit another sin. Saying "Jesus has this covered" is, as Maxwel mentioned, willful sin, and that is what should decrease as a person grows in Christ.

Someone who is knowingly, intentionally committing sin is showing that their heart has not been changed and that they care nothing for the things of God. That person is "storing up wrath" for themselves.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,489
732
113
#6
A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.
this is a common error in every person to decide to believe God without any doubt or continue in I believe and then doubt again, which I see all first born flesh continues to do, not seeing truth over error in this world we are still in, not moved on up yet, in Father God's s
Spirit and Truth leading you to rest in trust for Father to do whatever is needed to be done through you. To let go of our human mindsets and do as led, at least learn this from God Father of in risen Son for us all to be new, and love all over the few I know I used to.

So, I hear you want to do what is right from your post and yet you see you can't figure it out, and have continued in sin too, even though not wanting to, is that correct? Romans 7

Now I can not claim to you, that I have or anyone else of Faith to God, has the answer
Only Father of the risen Son has the answer(s)
Starts with
John 19:30 (It Is Finished)
? from that, what is finished? The fulfillment of the Law and prophets as in Matthew 5:17, that is what he claimed he came here to earth for us to get reconciled through his one time death willingly once for us all (Hebrews 10:10) Forgave us all to himself first, For Father to see you as if not ever sinned. Then present us to Father as perfect as if never sinned at all (Col 1:21-23) Now we can approach the throne of grace in confidence, thankfulness, and have conversations with Daddy, PaPa, Father
So, ask Daddy, PaPa, Father to put in you this new life where it is no longer you doing it or even trying to do it right as have and are getting taught to do under Law, that has caused your perplexity in understanding truth over error
Now, I am not saying Law is bad. Law is perfect, it is no flesh can do law perfect as is done by Son for us all first, (Rom 8:1-3) before any new life could ever get given. That had to be done first. now, Jesus the Son as risen Father gives new life to us in Daddy's, Spirit and Truth of love for all, yes even those that have done wrong, as we ourselves know we have also. (Romans 2:1-4) therefore I see to not accuse or excuse anyone, especially myself.

We are called, it is Daddy, PaPa, Father doing it through you in risen Son for you.
That is the let go part, willingly dead to first birth, made new alive to Father in Daddy's Spirit and Truth ( John 4:23-24) leading we doing yet not us are doing it, at least me thanks.
Father I can't do it perfect, yet you can and did it for me by Son, thank you. Now I need from you how to walk new in you. thank you I do not know how you will do this, yet I know you will somehow, someway. thank you
\
Father knows each and everyone of us and reveals truth to some and others not yet as my Father knows what is best for each of us, as to when to see it or not, by what anyone's motive is behind the scenes
Once one, any one lets go as shown to me in Luke 21 about that woman that gave all and the other that gave little, yet it seemed as the one that gave little it seemed as gave more. Not true
God, love us all personally so deeply, God sent Son in our deserved death place to give us new life in God's Spirit and Truth of the risen life of Son for us all in our souls, not of flesh nature, the first birth
Believe God, receive from God and begin learning new in God, watching sin fall off, as you do not stop belief to see. Which is nothing to boast of ever for me at least.
 
Sep 13, 2022
212
95
28
#7
I like to think that when you accept Jesus as your Savior and repent of your sins and ask forgiveness, that God is merciful and forgives all your sins. The salvation is always there because Christ paid the price on the cross. Unfortunately, in the flesh we are still going to commit sins that we need to repent for in order to be forgiven. I believe that we will answer for all the sins that we didn't repent of and ask forgiveness for.

Rev 21:12-15 says the books were opened and also the Book of Life. Everyone will be judged according to their works by the things written in the books. Even though those that believed in Jesus are written in the Book of Life, they still must be judged for their works in the flesh and for sins not repented for, that are written in the other books. If you repent of all your sins and have good works, you should have a clean record!
 
Nov 12, 2021
1,868
688
113
#8
Worth repeating what Dino246 has quoted

Someone who is knowingly, intentionally committing sin is showing that their heart has not been changed and that they care nothing for the things of God. That person is "storing up wrath" for themselves.
I will add that a true Born again Christian will not want to sin as it grieves the Holy Spirit so this person will work very hard to stay out of sin ------but we will miss the Mark occasionally and are to confess the sin and get right back on track of working hard to stay away from committing sin ------

We also have grace to call on to help us stay free from sin ------God said my Grace is sufficient -Grace is not just attribute of God today ---it is also a person ----Jesus who is Full of Grace and truth ----

AI

While the concept of "grace" is often understood as a divine attribute or gift,

the Bible also portrays it as embodied in the person of Jesus Christ, who is described as "full of grace and truth


Even though all our sins have been forgiven -----our flesh is still weak -----and God knows that ----so we will fall to sin at times ---but God can gives us the the Power to combat the sin we might make if we rely on and call on His Grace -----who is Jesus Christ ----


 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,833
2,889
113
#9
The Christian life should be characterized by both a decreasing amount and decreasing severity (impact) of sin. While "sin is sin" and no sin is inherently "more sinful" than any other sin, the impacts of sin vary greatly. A genuine Christian who has repented of known sin will not lightly commit another sin. Saying "Jesus has this covered" is, as Maxwel mentioned, willful sin, and that is what should decrease as a person grows in Christ.

Someone who is knowingly, intentionally committing sin is showing that their heart has not been changed and that they care nothing for the things of God. That person is "storing up wrath" for themselves.
Another interesting point is chastisement.
Scripture says clearly that God's people, when in rebellion, are chastened like sons... and that is actually a proof you belong to him.

Therefore, if a person claims to be a Christians, is living deeply in sin, and yet is receiving no chastening... it's not likely they belong to God.
.
 
Sep 13, 2022
212
95
28
#10
I like to think that when you accept Jesus as your Savior and repent of your sins and ask forgiveness, that God is merciful and forgives all your sins. The salvation is always there because Christ paid the price on the cross. Unfortunately, in the flesh we are still going to commit sins that we need to repent for in order to be forgiven. I believe that we will answer for all the sins that we didn't repent of and ask forgiveness for.

Rev 21:12-15 says the books were opened and also the Book of Life. Everyone will be judged according to their works by the things written in the books. Even though those that believed in Jesus are written in the Book of Life, they still must be judged for their works in the flesh and for sins not repented for, that are written in the other books. If you repent of all your sins and have good works, you should have a clean record!
Sorry, the correct scripture is Rev 20:12-15.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
20,393
3,124
113
#11
All sin is willful sin we don't accidently lie or steal or give in to sexual sin or unfaithfulness, but while the scriptures speak of not living a life of sin it is important to know that we all sin at some point and every sin has a consaquence just like every action has a consaquence whether good or bad.

but more importantly the heart of a person is the deciding factor, a heart that loves God would never live a life of sin because they want to make him proud they want to serve him not themselves they are born again not born and then struggle to remeain born.

And as far as his blood an important question to ask is was his blood that was shed good enough or not? remember we are no longer our own our salvation is a gift given to us from him he holds the contract to our souls not us
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
106
74
28
#12
I've enjoyed this thread very much but here's a thought that might freak some of u out . We sometimes sin and don't even know it , so , how can we repent of a sin that we don't know we have committed ? Sin is basically not doing what God wants us to do or , doing something that God doesn't want us to do . Bearing this in mind , I have a question , do u think that Jesus has paid for all the sins that we haven't yet committed and all the sins that we will unknowingly commit ? Are we forgiven in advance is what I think I'm asking . 🥴 .
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,897
660
113
#13
"That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?"

No I never had this thought.. if I ever did I never listen to it for it goes against scripture. Yet there is no sin I can do that HE never new I would do and didn't die for. Its done.. its finished. haha this song is perfect that's playing "Carman The Champion".. thank you Father.

This flesh loves to sin and as Paul said.. its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me. The thing is we do not have to sin. We can not walk in sin. We fall we just get up dust off keep going. Repent and keep going. Know that once we repent He cleanses us from all .. all is all and that is all all means. From all unrighteousness.

As one said sin we don't even know about. Yes fact but this where I repent for the sins I might have done yet do know about and hold them not to my charge. He will always let you know
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
106
74
28
#14
"That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?"

No I never had this thought.. if I ever did I never listen to it for it goes against scripture. Yet there is no sin I can do that HE never new I would do and didn't die for. Its done.. its finished. haha this song is perfect that's playing "Carman The Champion".. thank you Father.

This flesh loves to sin and as Paul said.. its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me. The thing is we do not have to sin. We can not walk in sin. We fall we just get up dust off keep going. Repent and keep going. Know that once we repent He cleanses us from all .. all is all and that is all all means. From all unrighteousness.

As one said sin we don't even know about. Yes fact but this where I repent for the sins I might have done yet do know about and hold them not to my charge. He will always let you know
I think u kind of answered this question with your very recent post on the thread : do we dissapoint God , thank you 😁
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
725
226
43
#15
The Five Solas are the foundational principles of the Reformation. It would be nice to get back to that.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,362
1,218
113
New Zealand
#16
A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.
You gotta ask what kind of judgment God is giving and who is being addressed.

Is it actually sending a believer to hell or is it discipline and correction?

Are believers actually the ones incurring the judgment?

Is it an entire nation/group being judged eg. A whole local church, group of churches, a nation..

Or is it an individual being judged?

Also inheritance in the Kingdom is different to entrance.

Entrance is thru being saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Done and dusted.

Inheritance..is more like laying hold of blessings in store. Getting the full rewards of faithfulness.

James 2..is about how believers have used their faith for the profit of others. Not about earning eternal life..or losing eternal life.
 
Nov 12, 2021
1,868
688
113
#17
We sometimes sin and don't even know it , so , how can we repent of a sin that we don't know we have committed ? Sin is basically not doing what God wants us to do or , doing something that God doesn't want us to do .
This statement you make here ----

We sometimes sin and don't even know it ,

I ask ------Can you give an example of what sin you commit that you don't know you have sinned ======

I say -----Cause you have to break a law to sin ---Sin is a choice we make -where there is no Law there is no sin applied

the Greek word for Sin ---
Strong's Lexicon
hamartia: Sin
a bad action, evil deed.

In the New Testament, "hamartia" is primarily used to denote sin, which is understood as a moral failing or transgression against God's law. It encompasses both the act of sinning and the inherent sinful nature of humanity.

Your quote here ---
how can we repent of a sin that we don't know we have committed


I say ------If you haven't broken a law ---then sin is not applied ---so you have no worries about having to repent ===

Your Quote Here

Sin is basically not doing what God wants us to do or , doing something that God doesn't want us to do

No---- sin is breaking any law ----if you decide not to do what God wants you to do ----that is just your decision ---God gave us free will to choose ----He does not impute sin on you for not doing what He wants you to do ------nor does He impute sin on you for doing something He doesn't want you to do ------

[QUOTE="Suze, post: 5477508, member: 340522"]I have a question , do u think that Jesus has paid for all the sins Are we forgiven in advance is what I think I'm asking[/QUOTE]

From Ai

Peter said that “everyone who believes in Jesus receives forgiveness of sins” (Act 10:43). John said the blood of Jesus “cleanses us from all sin”—past, present, and future (1 John 1:7). Then he adds, “your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake” (1 John 2:12).

I say -------So If all sins are forgiven why do we have to confess our sin when we do sin ----

Confessing our sin is not for God to forgive that sin as it has already been forgiven ---

It is for us to acknowledge our sin and confess it so we are in agreement with God that we have sin and we must fight to stay away from sin as best we can ----so it is for our benefit that we confess our sin openly to God ---we can't hide our sin from God so we are to confess it and get right back on track to kill it in our lives ---that is sin less and less as we mature in our walk with Christ ----
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,802
1,072
113
#19
A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does
not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life.

Believers do not undergo judgement.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,802
1,072
113
#20
Hello and yes ! I sometimes get confused by these things . Compare 1st John Ch 2 v 1 and Hebrews Ch 6 v 4-6 . Also 1st Corinthians Ch 5 and 2nd Corinthians Ch 2 v 1-11 . I'm sorry if u thought I was going to answer u and clear it all up for u , I'm guessing I made things worse 😜 anyone out there can help us please ?
You can only be saved by believing in Jesus; by grace through faith. (Ephesian 2:8)

And yes, you will never measure up to any standard of holiness just like everyone else.

Romans 8:12-14
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh for if you are
living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body,
you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.