Presuming on the Blood

[Trulyfree]

A tension I am having problems with in Scripture, and maybe you all can lend some light on this, is that Jesus paid it all for our sins once for all time (Hebrews Chapter Nine) and so faith in Him ensures our salvation (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, John 3:16, John 6:40, Acts 15:5-11). However, there are all these passages in the New Testament about if you practice sin, and it gives the lists numerous times (Revelation 21:8 is an example) that says if you keep practicing those sins you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is puzzling, because it places a Christian in a state of being like "well a bunch of Scriptures say its Faith without works (Ephensians 2:8-9), but then there are terrify ones that say I better not practice these sins or else I am going to be cast out of the Ecclesia.."

This tension of Grace and do not practice sin is why we have the Greasy Gracers and the Penitentialists extremes in churches.

So my question is, can you presume on the Blood of Christ? That is, do sin and be like "I know Jesus has this covered?" ("What Can Eash Away M I can hear Romans Chapter Six already in my head, but then there is also the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:26-30).

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Galatians 2:21), "And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace," (Romans 11:6), and "God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21).

And yet there is so many passages about not practicing sin:
"Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.." (1 John 3:4-11)

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51)

I know that at one point Martin Luther was so exasperated by this tension he cut out The Book of James from New Testament, and Pelagius removed most of the New Testament. I am not suggesting that, just how do we find the answer with such divergent Scriptures, it seems inevitable you end up with the Gracers and Penitentialist sects.

Further…

I would caution not to get the cart before the horse. As in, don’t try to better yourself to try to prove to yourself that you are saved. Much rather, make sure you understand the gospel and have placed your trust in Jesus to save you and then take your stand upon those verses, like John 3:16.

The mere fact that you bring up this topic, shows that you are concerned about sin in your life. And those that habitually sin, don’t care. Being concerned is a good sign that you are saved.

Lastly, don’t think that there is some point where you will have sinned too much and God will condemn you. He may discipline you as His child but not condemn you.

 

[Suze]

This statement you make here ----

We sometimes sin and don't even know it ,

I ask ------Can you give an example of what sin you commit that you don't know you have sinned ======

I say -----Cause you have to break a law to sin ---Sin is a choice we make -where there is no Law there is no sin applied

the Greek word for Sin ---
Strong's Lexicon
hamartia: Sin
a bad action, evil deed.

In the New Testament, "hamartia" is primarily used to denote sin, which is understood as a moral failing or transgression against God's law. It encompasses both the act of sinning and the inherent sinful nature of humanity.

Your quote here ---
how can we repent of a sin that we don't know we have committed

I say ------If you haven't broken a law ---then sin is not applied ---so you have no worries about having to repent ===

Your Quote Here

Sin is basically not doing what God wants us to do or , doing something that God doesn't want us to do

No---- sin is breaking any law ----if you decide not to do what God wants you to do ----that is just your decision ---God gave us free will to choose ----He does not impute sin on you for not doing what He wants you to do ------nor does He impute sin on you for doing something He doesn't want you to do ------

[QUOTE="Suze, post: 5477508, member: 340522"]I have a question , do u think that Jesus has paid for all the sins Are we forgiven in advance is what I think I'm asking

From Ai

Peter said that “everyone who believes in Jesus receives forgiveness of sins” (Act 10:43). John said the blood of Jesus “cleanses us from all sin”—past, present, and future (1 John 1:7). Then he adds, “your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake” (1 John 2:12).

I say -------So If all sins are forgiven why do we have to confess our sin when we do sin ----

Confessing our sin is not for God to forgive that sin as it has already been forgiven ---

It is for us to acknowledge our sin and confess it so we are in agreement with God that we have sin and we must fight to stay away from sin as best we can ----so it is for our benefit that we confess our sin openly to God ---we can't hide our sin from God so we are to confess it and get right back on track to kill it in our lives ---that is sin less and less as we mature in our walk with Christ ----[/QUOTE]
So , u don't think it's possible for u to offend one of your brother's or sisters in Christ without realising it ? If sin was not breaking any of God's laws then there would b some people ( the Pharisees perhaps ) who might b able to keep all the laws . The Pharisees didn't understand what the spirit of the law is , which is love , love God love each other . Do we all always love God ? Do we all always love our fellow human ? We sin in our hearts and minds with our thoughts , our lack of love etc . I don't break any of the laws of my country , does that make me perfect ? What about my thoughts feelings and words ? R they always acceptable to God ? Sin is not about not breaking the laws , it was for the Jews but we r not Jews , m we r Christians and when we sin it is about having the wrong spirit . I can give my money to someone but if in my heart I'm wishing I didn't have to then that makes my giving it of none effect because I gave it begrudgingly . We r not under the law , we r under grace and when we don't show that grace towards others in our daily lives , that's sin , freely we have received so freely we must give . Matthew Ch 5 , 6 and 7 r not about the laws of Moses . Matthew Ch 25 v 32-46 is not about keeping the law . Our ( Christian ) sins will not b measured against the law of Moses , our sins r against the laws of the spirit of love . Jeremiah Ch 31 v 31-34 .

 

[studentoftheword]

So , u don't think it's possible for u to offend one of your brother's or sisters in Christ without realising it ?

NO ___SIn has nothing to do with offending a Brother or Sister or an unbeliever ----

You need to break a Law to sin -----God gave that is it Israel 613 laws and that includes the 10 Commandments ----if you broke God's Laws you sinned -----that is it -----

AI
The phrase "where there is no law, there is no transgression"

(Romans 4:15) means that without a law, actions are not considered a legal violation or "sin" in a legal sense

WORTH REPEATING _______
without a law, --------------actions are not considered a legal violation or "sin

Romans 3:20. ESV For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Where there is no law there is no sin ----

you can offend your Brother or Sister all day long and it will no be a sin ------you need to break a law to sin ------

If you break the 50 miles per hour speed limit then you have sinned ----if you tell a lie against your neighbour then you have sinned ---if you sleep around with another man's wife or husband then you have sinned -----if you steal from the store then you have sinned -----sin need action ---

and here is the thing ===

Jesus said if you even if you think of stealing an item -----you have already committed the act in your heart -----so you are always aware of what your thinking and you are aware of your Sin action so there is no excuse of you never knowing that you have sinned -------

LOVE will not keep the Laws --------Period ---no man can keep the laws ever ----and if you break on law you have broken them all ----Jesus is the only one who could keep the laws -------no human can even today ---all Born Again people will break a law at some point ---we still sin ------you cannot keep the 613 laws -----
which is what Jesus kept -------all 613 laws ------

Love will not help you keep the laws ------

 

[homwardbound]

Even though all our sins have been forgiven -----our flesh is still weak -----and God knows that ----so we will fall to sin at times ---but God can gives us the the Power to combat the sin we might make if we rely on and call on His Grace -----who is Jesus Christ

Consider in the risen Son, risen for you that gives new life to you in your soul, not your flesh. For all sin now by Son is condemned to the flesh Romans 8:1-3
So be in Christ by belief it is done for you to be new, and learn new, and watch bad habits leave, that are sinful.
Renewing your mindset to see from Father's mindset to you through Son for you as reconciled, forgiven.
There is nothing more that anyone of first born flesh can do too please God ever. read that in Hebrews 10 the whole Chapter
See it is finished for you too in John 19:30, read the whole chapter please
then see Romans 6, the who;e chapter, get revealed reckon thyself dead to sin now in risen Son and begin to see new and watch sin leave, and not by you, any the done work of God through Son for you
Getting the "I" out of the way is not easy, and not that I have done it, I know this because I cannot predict any future. Therefore I put what is past behind me as fast as it is behind me, stand willing to learn from it, between God and you personally, see it and say thank you to God for showing, you, me and anyone else in belief, what got me, you and others triggered into that ignorance and sinned again
Paul, gave up Under Law to do of his own flesh and blood, to win Christ (Phil 3)

Be dead to sin and alive to god in truth given you from God, not me or any other person, thank you
Live in the present second, stay there, not in past or future thought(s) we, at least me cannot predict future. Therefore to ever say I am forgiven and I will not sin or ever want to sin sets one up to sin
Put past behind you as fast as I tis past from God it remains forgiven from God through Son's done work. So, now ask God, how to walk new in Faith trust, belief to God. it is assuredly not of anyone's own flesh nature ever since no flesh can please God ever since Son did I once for us all Romans 8:1-3

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

Ah yes of course ! The case of David , Bathsheba and Urijah springs to mind . God did forgive David but there were some heavy consequences to David's actions .

David also did something no one talks about, he seeks out The Sword of Goliath to give him power.. when he defeated Goliath by the power of God. Talk about a slide from where he had been spiritually.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I've enjoyed this thread very much but here's a thought that might freak some of u out . We sometimes sin and don't even know it , so , how can we repent of a sin that we don't know we have committed ? Sin is basically not doing what God wants us to do or , doing something that God doesn't want us to do . Bearing this in mind , I have a question , do u think that Jesus has paid for all the sins that we haven't yet committed and all the sins that we will unknowingly commit ? Are we forgiven in advance is what I think I'm asking . 🥴 .

Where do you think this fits in for a believer ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Jesus wrong or right about God the father and his children ?

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Suze]

Where do you think this fits in for a believer ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Jesus wrong or right about God the father and his children ?

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Please forgive me for being a bit dim , r u actually asking me a question ? Do u want me to reply ? I'm sorry if I'm a bit slow but im not sure if u want me to respond or not , thank you 😁 .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Please forgive me for being a bit dim , r u actually asking me a question ? Do u want me to reply ? I'm sorry if I'm a bit slow but im not sure if u want me to respond or not , thank you 😁 .

Nah no need to reply , I won’t bother you anymore was just responding to this

“I have a question , do u think that Jesus has paid for all the sins that we haven't yet committed and all the sins that we will unknowingly commit ? Are we forgiven in advance is what I think I'm asking “

So had asked you where that other part fits in ……

 

[Magenta]

I myself fall into the I am saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Alone camp

2 Timothy 3 verse 12 ~ Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .