Predestination is misunderstood...

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HeIsHere said:
Very interesting.

I would say we are justified, adopted, redeemed and sanctified in a moment in time (born again as per Jesus' words) however living in that reality is the process.

But there has to be a first step in the process right?
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According to Rom. 8:23, adoption is resurrection.
I would say redeemed by the atonement, justified by faith in Christ according to the light one has, regenerated with a new spirit, sanctified, glorified/adopted/ resurrected in the twinkling of an eye.
 
PaulThomson said:
According to Rom. 8:23, adoption is resurrection.
I would say redeemed by the atonement, justified by faith in Christ according to the light one has, regenerated with a new spirit, sanctified, glorified/adopted/ resurrected in the twinkling of an eye.
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I am going to go back and read through the posts, I always want to examine new ideas (to me) because that is how I realized that dispensationalism was wrong.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Zeph 3, She obeyed not the voice, she received not correction, she trusted not in the Lord, she drew not near to her God.

Verse 12-13, I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord, The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall feed and lay down, and none shall make them afraid.
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the remnant of Isreal are also the remenant of the sons of Adam.
 
Dino246 said:
Okay. Let me ask you a straightforward question: do you have any normal relationships with real people in real life? Do you have friends and family who enjoy your company, or do people generally avoid you because you're constantly correcting them?
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God has blessed me with a wonderful wife and beautiful children, all of them unreservedly love and respect me. I have many relatives and friends outside of the Church.
Most of them respect me, even though they don't agree with my theology. Others hate me but they still show some respect because they may be work colleges, neighbors, acquaintances or relatives.

I would be very worried if my worldly friends affirmed me and treated me like one of the boys, many hate me because I shared the gospel with them and as we know the gospel is the stench of death to the world.
So all the important people in my life love me very much and many of my worldly friends despise me but they still try to get on with me for the sake of peace.
 
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PaulThomson said:
OK. so by your own admission you do not have the mind of Christ, and you think that because you don't, no one else does either. Generalising your experience to everyone else is the hasty generalisation fallacy.

https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/hasty-generalization-fallacy/#:~:text=(formal fallacy).-,How does hasty generalization fallacy work,members is a logical leap.
How does hasty generalization fallacy work. An argument based on a hasty generalization moves from particular statements to a general statement. However, inferring a conclusion about an entire class of things from inadequate knowledge about some of its members is a logical leap.
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I get what you're saying but that doesn't apply in our case. I have called you out and you haven't justified your position by appealing to Gods Word, but in your defense you've have appealed to a man made philosophy and that just doesn't old water.

So I repeat, please name me a single Prophet of God or an Apostle who lived after the12 who Christ ordained. I know you answer already, you can't because they don't exist thank you
 
Charlie_2024 said:
I get what you're saying but that doesn't apply in our case. I have called you out and you haven't justified your position by appealing to Gods Word, but in your defense you've have appealed to a man made philosophy and that just doesn't old water.

So I repeat, please name me a single Prophet of God or an Apostle who lived after the12 who Christ ordained. I know you answer already, you can't because they don't exist thank you
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it's not about people needing to justify you

Evidently this also is depraving
 
Dino246 said:
Good! Your interaction on this site seems to be rather focused on correcting others, which paints you as self-righteous and arrogant. Maybe scale it back a bit and try to balance the correction with edification. ;)
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Thanks for the advice, I will take it onboard. I have been involved with our outreach ministry and the Elder who I accompany in door knocking and approaching people on the street. Taught me to hit people with some cold hard facts, rather than just telling them "Jesus loves you and hand them a tract" they usually grab the tract and say gotta run guys. They go away thinking that Jesus loves them regardless of how they live or what they do.

His usual approach is to ask them what their relationship with Jesus Christ is like. Most say things like yeah I was born into a Catholic or some other kind of religious family, so yeah Jesus is a cool dude.

But then he askes them if they think they're going to heaven if they die today and then he goes through the 10 commandments and of course they fail them so he askes them again if God should accept them into heaven considering they have just admitted that they broke His commandments.

So his approach is from a fire and brimstone position, with the intention of shaking people out of a false sense of security. He says, folks need to be shown that they are in need or forgiveness, rather than telling everyone Jesus loves you. And that has rubbed off onto me.

He did give me the same advice as you did, he said you don't want to repel people by giving them the impression that you're "holier than thou" as that will turn them against you. And you will lose the opportunity to be a faithful witness. So I'll try to find a balance when communicating with people who have different world views.
 
Charlie_2024 said:
I don't enjoy using the whip, but Jesus also resorted to corporal punishment in the Temple when He saw what was taking place in it.

Matthew 21: 12-13

12 Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’ ”
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You really like that.
It suits your kind of flesh just fine..
Your flesh loves it..
It wants to use it for license to free expression to push around others in the name of righteousness.

Take your fantasy about yourself elsewhere.

Clobbering and telling someone they are wrong leaves them with nothing to think with.
Instead... you should be giving them the truth that they lack and leave it to God as for the outcome.

Unless you can teach what they lack in understanding? And, can only tell them they are wrong?

Put the whip down.

Its not a toy for little boys in a big body to make themselves feel like they are a big man for God.

Teach what is needed to be known first.
Then leave it to God for the outcome.

We don't need another jackass running wild in the forum.

thank you.

Grace and peace................
 
PaulThomson said:
First comes atonement. Then faith in Christ's resurrection with justification. Then regeneration. Then sanctification (the operational training phase) then resurrection/glorification/adoption in the twinkling of an eye. Then reigning with Christ.
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Actually... first comes God creating the Heavens and earth.
For without the creation there could be no regeneration.

Come on... I was talking about an actual experience a believer goes through.
I simply stated...

First comes regeneration.
Having become forever "His property." ​

That was the only point I wanted to make.
There is too much competition and not enough meditation.

Sometimes I think Christian forums are like the Church hanging out its dirty laundry in the world's back yard the way we act.
 
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