Predestination is misunderstood...

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sawdust said:
You can't be just without being fair.

I hope I'm not standing next to you when you explain to God He wasn't fair. :eek:
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He already knows.
So, in the book of James, we are warned against having a well dressed person who joins the congregation to sit in a place of honor and a poorly dressed individual placed in a position of dishonor.
Is this injustice or unfairness?
 
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say a soulish man has no spirit? Where are you getting that idea from in the text of the Bible?
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If you clicked on the link I gave you would have read the following...

The word “natural” means soulish. We get our word “psychology” from this word. The” natural man” is all soul, pure psychology, and no spirit. He has natural capacity but no spiritual capacity (psuchikos). He does not have the capacity to relate to God because he has had only one birth; he has not had a second birth. He may outwardly be very moral or righteous, but inwardly he is dead to God. He is no more than a soul and without spiritual capacity. He cannot connect to God.


PaulThomson said:
Raised in Roman Catholicism. Rejected that at 15 years old.
Believed in Jesus and baptised into the church by the Holy Spirit at age 22. Have fellowshipped in Alive Christian Fellowship, Baptist, Reformed Orthodox, Open Brethren, Nazarene, Assemblies of God, Bible Bhavan and Delhi Bible Fellowship congregations over the years.
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I offer you the following to find out what good sound exegetical teaching may do for your spiritual edification.
Such teaching is rare to find today.... https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3


grace and peace .....................
 
sawdust said:
Some people can't handle the truth. ;)
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They are afraid of the truth because principalities and powers put on invisible pressure whenever they are presented with what is needed to be made free from the invisible evil influence. An evil influence that wants to sovereignly make us think what the evil wants us to think. The truth for that reason causes them to feel instable...

Its spiritual warfare.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
That's a foolish suggestion,

You said maybe God had angels watching them in the garden of eden.

Why would they need to be watched in the garden if eden, when firstly they free, innocent. And God had saw everything he created was Good

Secondly, why would God tell them not to eat from the tree of knowledge, if.he knew that they was going to.
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Angels were in the Garden of Eden.
This is one/Satan/ that God has Ezekiel talking to in the verses below:


13 thou wast in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the carnelian, the topaz, and the emerald, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the carbuncle, and the smaragd, and gold; the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets was in thee, in the day that thou wast created they were prepared.

14 Thou wast the far-covering cherub

16 ...O covering cherub
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
what a suprise another you you you, and accusation.

I'm beginning suspect your possessed with all your accusations.

So come on then clever clogs let's hear your suggestion, as to why God asked Adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge if he knew they where going to,
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Does not a wise parent warn a child about something that that child needs to learn obedience about?
Knowing full well that the child must first learn that wrong choices do have consequences?

God is the perfect parent....
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
God did set Angels in the Garden of Eden.
This is one/Satan/ that God has Ezekiel talking to in the verses below:


13 thou wast in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the carnelian, the topaz, and the emerald, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the carbuncle, and the smaragd, and gold; the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets was in thee, in the day that thou wast created they were prepared.

14 Thou wast the far-covering cherub

16 ...O covering cherub
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God set the cherubs to guard the tree of life after they sinned, why did he not do that before they sinned.

But here's a question for you.

Why did God ask them not to eat from the tree of knowledge if he knew they where already going to.

Now where going back to the beginning now, after you've failed to answer a straight answer, regarding why God didn't know they had sinned in genesis 3

Can you answer this straight question, without bringing something up after the fall.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
God set the cherubs to guard the tree of life after they sinned, why did he not do that before they sinned.

But here's a question for you.

Why did God ask them not to eat from the tree of knowledge if he knew they where already going to.

Now where going back to the beginning now, after you've failed to answer a straight answer, regarding why God didn't know they had sinned in genesis 3

Can you answer this straight question, without bringing something up after the fall.
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God did not ask, He commanded.

Verse 13 thou wast in Eden the garden of God is about who the the serpent was
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
God set the cherubs to guard the tree of life after they sinned, why did he not do that before they sinned.
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That is like someone asking...

Why has God allowed you to be here to act the way you do? So you will lose all your eternal rewards?
 
Genez said:
Does not a wise parent warn a child about something that that child needs to learn obedience about?
Knowing full well that the child must first learn that wrong choices do have consequences?

God is the perfect parent....
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This is another suggestion nothing more.

Your assertion is based on God knowing they where going to.

So as I already demonstrated in 5 suggestions in genesis 3, as to why he didn't know they had sinned, I also provided another three suggestions as to why to, that counts 8 suggestions lining up.

And another very important one too.

That counts 9

And another suggestion why he would.

That counts 10.


He didn't say I know you will eat from the tree did he 🤔 he asked them not to.

So this is now a total of 11 different suggestions all lining up with each other in common senses.

The main suggestion being God did not create man to sin, or know that they would before they did In the Garden of the Eden.
 
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say a soulish man has no spirit? Where are you getting that idea from in the text of the Bible?
Genez said:
If you clicked on the link I gave you would have read the following...

The word “natural” means soulish. We get our word “psychology” from this word. The” natural man” is all soul, pure psychology, and no spirit. He has natural capacity but no spiritual capacity (psuchikos). He does not have the capacity to relate to God because he has had only one birth; he has not had a second birth. He may outwardly be very moral or righteous, but inwardly he is dead to God. He is no more than a soul and without spiritual capacity. He cannot connect to God.




I offer you the following to find out what good sound exegetical teaching may do for your spiritual edification.
Such teaching is rare to find today.... https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3


grace and peace .....................
Click to expand...

Your source is not the scriptures.
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say a soulish man has no spirit? Where are you getting that idea from in the text of the Bible?
 
Sipsey said:
Since Jesus died for mine and your sins, is sin really the issue, or acceptance of that forgivness?
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Good question, Sipsey.

Not from God's point of view, as I see it. God is big enough to stomach our sin, even though He hates it. But from ours point of view both our guilt over our sins, and/or our indifference to sin, distort our relationship with God. The cross was to enable us to have a correct view of the seriousness of sin and to have a correct view of Gd's willingness to forgive our sins.
 
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Cameron143 said:
He already knows.
So, in the book of James, we are warned against having a well dressed person who joins the congregation to sit in a place of honor and a poorly dressed individual placed in a position of dishonor.
Is this injustice or unfairness?
Click to expand...

It's both. You can't be fair without being just. The two go together like monogamy and marriage. You keep trying to split them apart as if they are two equal yet opposite/different things. They are not. You cannot deal out justice if you are not impartial. It's not a hard concept to understand. To say God is just but not fair is ludicrous and you may not have said that directly, but it is definitely implied in your posts.

Why do you keep insisting that fairness means treating everyone the same? That is the way the world judges fair. You are not of the world so stop using their criteria for what is fair.

You raised the parable about the workers in the vineyard (Matt.20). It is a perfect example of comparison between the worlds sense of what is just and fair and what is God's sense of just and fair. You think the workers were treated unfairly? If so, guess with whose side you are aligning.
 
sawdust said:
It's both. You can't be fair without being just. The two go together like monogamy and marriage. You keep trying to split them apart as if they are two equal yet opposite/different things. They are not. You cannot deal out justice if you are not impartial. It's not a hard concept to understand. To say God is just but not fair is ludicrous and you may not have said that directly, but it is definitely implied in your posts.

Why do you keep insisting that fairness means treating everyone the same? That is the way the world judges fair. You are not of the world so stop using their criteria for what is fair.

You raised the parable about the workers in the vineyard (Matt.20). It is a perfect example of comparison between the worlds sense of what is just and fair and what is God's sense of just and fair. You think the workers were treated unfairly? If so, guess with whose side you are aligning.
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You are correct that it is both. But why is it unfair and why is it unjust?
 
sawdust said:
It's both. You can't be fair without being just. The two go together like monogamy and marriage. You keep trying to split them apart as if they are two equal yet opposite/different things. They are not. You cannot deal out justice if you are not impartial. It's not a hard concept to understand. To say God is just but not fair is ludicrous and you may not have said that directly, but it is definitely implied in your posts.
Click to expand...

Maybe Solomon cutting the baby in half and giving an equal piece to each woman would have been fair, but unjust.
 
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