Predestination is misunderstood...
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If you deny the doctrine of predestination then you deny the triune work of the Godhead where the Father chose a number which no man can number from all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues and sent His Son to secure salvation for them and the Holy Spirit seals it to those whom the Father had chosen by grace though the foolishness of Gospel preaching. Therefore to deny the doctrine of predestination which drips from just about every page of Holy Scripture is to deny the Trinity. Is that what you are do?
As for God choosing some for salvation and other for damnation. I give you the Scriptures below to ponder and try to twist to your man-centred view.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction
Pro 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Psa 92:7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
As for God choosing some for salvation and other for damnation. I give you the Scriptures below to ponder and try to twist to your man-centred view.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction
Pro 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Psa 92:7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
those who are spiritually dead can not and will not see the Kingdom of God unless they are regenerated.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Kingdom of God reigns presently in His people as they herald the glorious victory that He has won for them and those who are not His people remain in darkness until He comes in flaming fire in judgement against those who do not know Him or obey His Gospel (2 Thes 1:7-9).
Please state your exact theological, eschatological and doctrinal position if you wish to discuss this further rather than me trying to guess where you stand.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Kingdom of God reigns presently in His people as they herald the glorious victory that He has won for them and those who are not His people remain in darkness until He comes in flaming fire in judgement against those who do not know Him or obey His Gospel (2 Thes 1:7-9).
Please state your exact theological, eschatological and doctrinal position if you wish to discuss this further rather than me trying to guess where you stand.
Do you have a Shepherd, as in Church Elder or Minister on board. Discussing Bible doctrine with others who God has not appointed to lead and teach can be problematic. We don't want to form erroneous views unwittingly.
Every Bible doctrine must line up with all the others. Bible study can be very difficult, because there seem to be contradictions in the Bible. Many people don't like dealing with certain difficult verses because they don't line up with some others which they have understood in a way that makes sense to them.
So I believe it is very important to be guided by a qualified Minister.
Every Bible doctrine must line up with all the others. Bible study can be very difficult, because there seem to be contradictions in the Bible. Many people don't like dealing with certain difficult verses because they don't line up with some others which they have understood in a way that makes sense to them.
So I believe it is very important to be guided by a qualified Minister.
I am sorry to have to say this, but if you do not see the Scriptures which clearly describe the state of man as being spiritually dead then you are not yet regenerated and have yet to see yourself before a thrice holy God and be humbled to see yourself deserving His just wrath and your desperate need for grace in Christ alone.
Yes, the serpent in Genesis chapter 3 was Satan. Satan was either appearing as a serpent, possessing the serpent, or deceiving Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. Serpents / snakes do not possess the ability to speak. Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 both describe Satan as a serpent. "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2). "The great dragon was hurled down, that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him" (Revelation 12:9). Was Satan the serpent in Genesis chapter 3?
Serpent (Greek: ὄφις; Trans: Ophis, /ˈo. fis/; "snake", "serpent") occurs in the Book of Revelation as the "ancient serpent" or "old serpent" used to describe "the dragon", Satan the Adversary, who is the devil. Serpents in the Bible
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Verify? He is called in the Greek the "soulish man." Look up the other translations and you will even see some translators took the liberty to define what was taking place with the soulish man, saying he has no ' spirit."
Look here!
May I ask what is your Christian background?
Look here!
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God... 1 Cor 2:14.
The word “natural” means soulish. We get our word “psychology” from this word. The” natural man” is all soul, pure psychology, and no spirit. He has natural capacity but no spiritual capacity (psuchikos). He does not have the capacity to relate to God because he has had only one birth; he has not had a second birth. He may outwardly be very moral or righteous, but inwardly he is dead to God. He is no more than a soul and without spiritual capacity. He cannot connect to God. "
May I ask what is your Christian background?
Of course that Hebrew was in the Torah. Where else do you think it came from?
Westminster Leningrad Codex (Gen 3:1)
וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃
וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ (wə-han-nā-ḥāš) = now the serpent
And according to you the Hebrew scholars who gave us the English equivalent were ignorant.
NASB Translation
serpent (24), serpent's (2), serpents (2), snake (1).
Where are the fortune tellers in this?
Westminster Leningrad Codex (Gen 3:1)
וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃
וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ (wə-han-nā-ḥāš) = now the serpent
And according to you the Hebrew scholars who gave us the English equivalent were ignorant.
NASB Translation
serpent (24), serpent's (2), serpents (2), snake (1).
Where are the fortune tellers in this?
So your saying God created the devil to make Adam and eve fall in the Garden of eden, where God walked with Adam and eve, and God also created this knowing mankind would die.
And your also saying God created all this even if the serpent was not directly satan, it still could of been satan because because Satan could of possessed the serpent,
So your saying if the serpent was possessed by satan, it would still be satan.
Which one is it with your opinions, and your Hebrew Gods of interpretation.
Is it the serpent was Satan or it was Satan because satan possessed it, ( how absurd).
Right ok So your also saying God created man to fall, knowing that they would fall as a result of a creature being possessed.
So may I ask also, are you somebody else who's knows every everything about God also. 😊
And your also saying God created all this even if the serpent was not directly satan, it still could of been satan because because Satan could of possessed the serpent,
So your saying if the serpent was possessed by satan, it would still be satan.
Which one is it with your opinions, and your Hebrew Gods of interpretation.
Is it the serpent was Satan or it was Satan because satan possessed it, ( how absurd).
Right ok So your also saying God created man to fall, knowing that they would fall as a result of a creature being possessed.
So may I ask also, are you somebody else who's knows every everything about God also. 😊
Time.waster , seriously 🤔
I've spent the best part of several hours trying to talk to people who have all rejected over a dozen different suggestions, that line up with scripture.
And I'm the time waster.
Now I'm having to contend with only the Hebrew bible Is correct.
So that must mean all the biblical scholars of the past are time wasters too, because they never knew God like modern day English translators of Hebrew do.
I've spent the best part of several hours trying to talk to people who have all rejected over a dozen different suggestions, that line up with scripture.
And I'm the time waster.
Now I'm having to contend with only the Hebrew bible Is correct.
So that must mean all the biblical scholars of the past are time wasters too, because they never knew God like modern day English translators of Hebrew do.
oh well that confirms your wonderful Hebrew Gods of interpretation then
The serpent was telling somebody a fortune was it not.
If I got my crystal ball out and said get give me some money and you will surely be rich after I give you some advice.
Would that make me a fortune teller also, and would that make me satan.
Do you see how absurd your Hebrew God is.
.
The serpent was telling somebody a fortune was it not.
If I got my crystal ball out and said get give me some money and you will surely be rich after I give you some advice.
Would that make me a fortune teller also, and would that make me satan.
Do you see how absurd your Hebrew God is.
.
I don't get my theology from men and then force it into the Bible. I try to let God speak through the words He chose to use in editing the scriptures. I am not going to pigeon-hole myself so that you can well-poison my interpretation of texts based on what you think those so labeled believe. If you would rather jingo-ise and cheer for your team vs what you perceive as my team than discuss the meaning of texts, the value of conversation with you on the meaning of scripture will be reduced to close to zero.
Where does scripture say a soulish man has no spirit? Where are you getting that idea from in the text of the Bible?
Raised in Roman Catholicism. Rejected that at 15 years old.
Believed in Jesus and baptised into the church by the Holy Spirit at age 22. Have fellowshipped in Alive Christian Fellowship, Baptist, Reformed Orthodox, Open Brethren, Nazarene, Assemblies of God, Bible Bhavan and Delhi Bible Fellowship congregations over the years.
Raised in Roman Catholicism. Rejected that at 15 years old.
Believed in Jesus and baptised into the church by the Holy Spirit at age 22. Have fellowshipped in Alive Christian Fellowship, Baptist, Reformed Orthodox, Open Brethren, Nazarene, Assemblies of God, Bible Bhavan and Delhi Bible Fellowship congregations over the years.