Pre or post Adam
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Nope. He became a "Child of wrath" after he SINNED and fell short of God's Glory. However the promise of restoration was also given in Gen 3:15.
What sin is He guilty of by having the genes of David, Abraham, Noah, and Adam?
What sin are we guilty of by being born with a fallen nature?
The physical flesh is affected by sin but not guilty of sin.
When Jesus was crucified He was physically affected by sin.... but He was still perfect. The fallen nature is the flesh. The flesh is affected by sin and it is past on from generation to generation.
But that physical defect does not make us guilty until we yield to temptation.
The fallen flesh does not = sin
Sin is the transgression of the law.
The doctrine of "Original sin" has twisted people's understanding of sin.
Jesus with the fallen nature choose not to sin = perfect lamb of God.
We with the fallen nature do choose to sin = sinners that need salvation.
Jesus came here through woman, not born of man, born a life-giving spirit
To give new life to us that believe he is risen. The death. done one time for us all was to take away sin from Daddy's, PaPa's, Father's sight to give us new life in his risen Son for us to love all, yes even those that have done us wrong. We are today in risen Son forgiven. So I see to simply forgive as well, since by God I am now forgiven and so are, is everyone else too
1 John 2:1-2
Well, we are all by nature children of wrath until born again. If this was not Adam's nature
prior to sinning, then it would seem evident that his nature did change after he disobeyed God.
Adam (after Eve) sinned with his "perfect nature" so obviously nothing in his "Nature" changed at all.
Where is Adam ever called perfect? Or human nature, for that matter? More it is called corrupt, evil, and vile.
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
An angry father has children .....
The genetics are not black and white, we are all different .....but the fathers anger is seen in the children. The character traits are often seen in the next generation.
Inheritance is proven, physically and emotionally.
But we have 2 parents, so we can get more of one or the other parrent....
The conception of Jesus was a miracle unexplained.... yes it was the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary but the deeper details are not explained.
But Jesus was flesh and blood like you and me. And Mary was a sinner too.
Joseph was the legal father. The throne of David belonged to him.
Mary was the mother and she to can trace her decendents back to David. Luke 3...
So both legal and genetics take Jesus back to David.
Jeremiah 22:30 says of Coniah, “Record this man as childless . . . none of his descendants will succeed in sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah.” This created a “Catch 22” of sorts. Only a descendant of Solomon could be king, yet this line was cursed. Therefore, only Jesus could fulfill the Davidic covenant. Jesus had the legal right to be king through Joseph but, because He was virgin born, the curse on Coniah did not apply to Him. Instead, He was the son of David through His mother Mary. Both genealogies are significant in establishing the Lord Jesus as the true Davidic king.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
But the son in law of Heli was Joseph...
Joseph's father in law was Heli so this was Mary's genealogy.
Luk 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
Joseph's genealogy is .. according to Matthew... Mat 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;......
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
The genetics are not black and white, we are all different .....but the fathers anger is seen in the children. The character traits are often seen in the next generation.
Inheritance is proven, physically and emotionally.
But we have 2 parents, so we can get more of one or the other parrent....
The conception of Jesus was a miracle unexplained.... yes it was the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary but the deeper details are not explained.
But Jesus was flesh and blood like you and me. And Mary was a sinner too.
Joseph was the legal father. The throne of David belonged to him.
Mary was the mother and she to can trace her decendents back to David. Luke 3...
So both legal and genetics take Jesus back to David.
Jeremiah 22:30 says of Coniah, “Record this man as childless . . . none of his descendants will succeed in sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah.” This created a “Catch 22” of sorts. Only a descendant of Solomon could be king, yet this line was cursed. Therefore, only Jesus could fulfill the Davidic covenant. Jesus had the legal right to be king through Joseph but, because He was virgin born, the curse on Coniah did not apply to Him. Instead, He was the son of David through His mother Mary. Both genealogies are significant in establishing the Lord Jesus as the true Davidic king.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
But the son in law of Heli was Joseph...
Joseph's father in law was Heli so this was Mary's genealogy.
Luk 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
Joseph's genealogy is .. according to Matthew... Mat 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;......
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
that would create quite the issue since Adam was created in God's image and likeness. The nature changed after the fall and continue with the birth Seth. Who was in Adam's image and likeness. A corrupted image and likeness.
I wonder how humanity went from being seen as good and very good to there being none good, no not one, if nothing changed.
From being good and very good to, the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon
the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.
Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
Well after the fall Adam definitely had his own image and likeness.I wonder how humanity went from being seen as good and very good to there being none good, no not one, if nothing changed.
From being good and very good to, the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon
the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.
Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
Gen 5:3
When Adam was 130 years old, he had a son in his own likeness, after his own image; and he named him Seth.
Adam's"Nature" obviously NEVER CHANGED, since he has no problem SINNING with his ORIGINAL HUMAN NATURE.
Adam wasn't always a sinner. His nature was in the likeness and image of God. Your implying God didn't actually create Adam in His own likeness and image.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.
And yet we are by nature children of wrath until born again. We inherit that nature from Adam.
But you say Adam was perfect, which means he could not have been by nature a child of wrath.
Something does not add up. It seems something did change.
Well?
If Adam never changed?
He could have been the human sacrifice to atone for our sins.
I entertained this thought for a while but came to the conclusion it would have to be a divine interaction.
Adam being first man made by God. He had no father but a creator God. Eve was created through Adam. 2 different creations.
Adam chose to sin....rabbis writtings say it was for the love of eve that he did so. Wilfully sin.
Eve was tricked by the serpent.....sin of transgression.
There is no mention in scripture that these two had any divine or super natural qualities.
Eve could be and is seen as the church in some teachings.
Jesus being the second Adam.
Jesus being born the first and only son of God (not made). Being Born of a virgin woman
Being both God and man.
Willing to become sin and die for his bride for the love of father God.
Adam chose to sin....rabbis writtings say it was for the love of eve that he did so. Wilfully sin.
Eve was tricked by the serpent.....sin of transgression.
There is no mention in scripture that these two had any divine or super natural qualities.
Eve could be and is seen as the church in some teachings.
Jesus being the second Adam.
Jesus being born the first and only son of God (not made). Being Born of a virgin woman
Being both God and man.
Willing to become sin and die for his bride for the love of father God.