This is quite contradictory. Either God knows, or He does not.
Poll about how you see predestination/freewill
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Webster's defines predestination as the doctrine that God, in consequence of
his foreknowledge of all events, infallibly guides those who are destined for
salvation.
A very key element in the proper understanding of biblical predestination is
God's ability to see the future. In other words: biblical predestination isn't an
arbitrary selection process, rather, it's based upon knowing ahead of time
how people are going to react in a given situation; for example:
● Rom 8:29 . . For those whom God foreknew, He also predestined to be
conformed to the likeness of His son.
"those whom God foreknew" pertains to all the folks that God was fully
aware would pay attention to the gospel and buy into it.
● Eph 1:13 . . In Christ, you also, after listening to the message of truth--
the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in him
with the Holy Spirit of promise.
That particular sealing takes place in real time. However, by His knowing
ahead of time who would believe and undergo the sealing, God was able to
put them on a track that He planned for all such in the distant past.
● Eph 1:4-5 . . For He chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to
be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted
as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
_
Webster's defines predestination as the doctrine that God, in consequence of
his foreknowledge of all events, infallibly guides those who are destined for
salvation.
A very key element in the proper understanding of biblical predestination is
God's ability to see the future. In other words: biblical predestination isn't an
arbitrary selection process, rather, it's based upon knowing ahead of time
how people are going to react in a given situation; for example:
● Rom 8:29 . . For those whom God foreknew, He also predestined to be
conformed to the likeness of His son.
"those whom God foreknew" pertains to all the folks that God was fully
aware would pay attention to the gospel and buy into it.
● Eph 1:13 . . In Christ, you also, after listening to the message of truth--
the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in him
with the Holy Spirit of promise.
That particular sealing takes place in real time. However, by His knowing
ahead of time who would believe and undergo the sealing, God was able to
put them on a track that He planned for all such in the distant past.
● Eph 1:4-5 . . For He chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to
be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted
as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
_
The Bible claims that ALL BELIEVERS will be saved through Jesus and that was predestined, established, decreed before the foundation of the world took place.
All that means is God designed it that to be saved it will happen by the works of Jesus Christ fulfilled.
So Jesus is the only one truly predestined.
I am saved but nowhere do I read in any verse that lrs is predestined.
Nope, the only one ever predestined is Jesus and Ephesians does its best to describe this.
All that means is God designed it that to be saved it will happen by the works of Jesus Christ fulfilled.
So Jesus is the only one truly predestined.
I am saved but nowhere do I read in any verse that lrs is predestined.
Nope, the only one ever predestined is Jesus and Ephesians does its best to describe this.
There is another view that takes into account that physicists say there are at least 10 dimensions. We perceive only 4 of them; 3 spacial dimensions and time. That leaves 6 dimensions we can't experience, and at least one of these is a second time dimension. So in our time dimension mankind has freewill, and in the other God's sovereignty prevails.
From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
I like Molinism as well. Reason I dont claim to be one is because its never explicitly mentioned in scripture that God "chooses the best possible world" where people freely choose Him when put in certain situations.
Open theism I like the most because I see that all over the Bible. I never had a word for it until @PaulThomson introduced me to it. Great stuff.
Denial of Original Sin: Pelagians reject the idea that Adam's fall caused a corruption of human nature. They believe
that each individual is born with the ability to choose between good and evil, and that sin is a purely voluntary act.
Emphasis on Free Will:
Pelagians emphasize the power of the human will in achieving righteousness and salvation. They
believe that humans can choose to live a virtuous life and avoid sin through their own efforts.
Rejection of Grace:
This view contrasts with the dominant doctrines of grace, which emphasizes that humans need God's grace to overcome sin and achieve salvation. Pelagians minimize the role of grace, suggesting that humans could achieve perfection through their own efforts.
Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7:21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8:21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14:4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:18
Ok, thanks I'd just never heard of Pelagian Heretics before.
Yes it is speculation. I believe Dr Ross states that he is not saying this is how it happened but that this is one of thousands of ways God could remain sovereign and allow freewill at the same time.
Personally, I have always thought that God was big enough to work over, under, around or through, all the freewill decisions of all beings to execute His plan and will.
None of the above as predestination has nothing to do with man's free will. Predestination is God deciding what to do with believers; where and when to put them, how they are to work out the salvation they are given ie by conscience, Law (Torah) or the Spirit. Man has no part in that decision making process.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Psalm 147 verse 5, Isaiah 40 verse 28b, Jeremiah 32 verse 17b, Isaiah 55 verse 9, Job 36 verse 5 ~ Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding has no limit. Psalm 147 verse 5 His understanding is beyond searching out. Isaiah 40 verse 28b Nothing is too difficult for You! Jeremiah 32 verse 17b For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55 verse 9 His understanding is beyond searching out. Isaiah 40 verse 28b He is mighty in strength of understanding. Job 36 verse 5
Never cared for *ism. Someone comes along and tells you why this or that *ism is wrong and blah blah blah. And of course the one telling you which is wrong.. duh believes follow the correct one. Part of that is true.. Its Christ.. that's the one I follow believe in. I am sure some things I believe fall into some *ism. .. time to flip channels
People might put me in either the Arminian or the Molinism camp, though I claim affinity with neither one of those. I think it best not to claim affinity with any manmade doctrinal position. For example, I would say that I definitely believe in the Trinity, but I will not sign my name to some ecclesiastical written manmade explanation of the Trinity.
Hence there is no way for me to conscientiously answer the poll with any of your answers . . .
Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, + 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).
1. Molinism is completely incompatible with classical Augustinianism from which arose Calvinism and Lutheranism both of which held completely to the primary teaching of Theistic Determinism. This is why all the Reformers read Augustine so extensively.
2. John Calvin himself wrote: Augustine is so wholly with me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness of satisfaction to myself out of his writings."
(A Treatise of the Eternal Predestination of God)
Also, in his The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin confesses that his views relied heavily on Augustine. In his works Calvin relies heavily on Augustine, mentioning him about 370 times and directly quoting him over 150 of those times. This, proves that Calvin's beliefs were predominantly the fruit of Augustine's beliefs.
3. As for Luther, he had been an Augustininan monk whose field of study was the works of Augustine
4. Reformed teaching relies on the Catholic doctrine taught by Augustine. The Ante-nicene writers, evangelists, apologists and teacher before him believed in free will and divine foreknowledge of human choice.