Pastoral Restoration Craze

[Musicmaster]

The non-profit organization known as Focus on the Family (FotF), appears to be leading the charge forward to restore fallen "pastors" back to man-made, institutional ministry leadership...if not even the position they once held and had compromised through grievous sin that many don't seem to take seriously. I mean, the very name FotF shows what should be their aim toward "family," and now they are dabbling in the launch out into institutional church leadership issues.

Why?

For strange reasons that I can't seem to align with the name, some within the ranks of FotF appear to see themselves as authorized to assist and restore fallen, unqualified "pastors," to positions of institutionalized leadership roles through Freudian-Biblical mixtures of corrupt theology and secular, woke "forgiveness" as the basis for said restoration.

Some at FotF have tried to use God's handling of King David as a prime example for restoration to institutional church leadership. The problem with that is that there were no qualifying prerequisites to David becoming king. God chose David, sent the prophet Nathan to anoint him with oil, and David was chosen by the One who KNEW he was going to perpetrate murder and adultery. The FotF gang also seem to have forgotten that David also suffered judgement upon his reign as king, with the sword chasing his family like a curse because of his grievous sins.

So, if one is going to try and draw lines of parallel between fallen "pastors" and other biblical figures, then please apples to apples comparisons rather than apples to oranges. Reigning as the anointed king is not the same thing serving in institutional, pastoral leadership roles. That the gang at FotF can't seem to discern the distinction shines a glaring spotlight upon their own lack of leadership stature of biblical caliber.

What are your thoughts about all this?

For those who care to read what scripture has to say, here are a couple of contextual quotes:

1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5-9
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Compromisers behind pulpits are nothing but a recipe for greater compromises down the road, as we are seeing now in so many church and parachurch organizations all around the world. We are indeed in the last days when men will not abide sound doctrinal teaching. Instead, they want to forgive and restore. We should indeed forgive, but restoration...that is an entirely different matter.

MM

 

[Subhumanoidal]

"Woke forgiveness"? Isn’t being woke what lead to cancel culture? Where woke people dig into others personal lives, going back decades if need be, just to find one thing the person said or did, then using that against them to get them canceled.
The same ones who scream and yell and cry and run away, or get violent, when approached with a view other than their own?
I'm not seeing the forgiveness you're talking about.
And since when was forgiveness bad? Somebody better go let Jesus know how woke he's being.

 

[Musicmaster]

"Woke forgiveness"? Isn’t being woke what lead to cancel culture? Where woke people dig into others personal lives, going back decades if need be, just to find one thing the person said or did, then using that against them to get them canceled.
The same ones who scream and yell and cry and run away, or get violent, when approached with a view other than their own?
I'm not seeing the forgiveness you're talking about.
And since when was forgiveness bad? Somebody better go let Jesus know how woke he's being.

Woke-ness has many manifestations, all of which tend toward inconsistencies of all types. That's why I chose that terminology. It speaks to the intent and the meaning. There is no singular definition...especially in a world where words no longer mean much unless someone chooses to see such things as "micro-aggressions" in another's words as a battering ram to silence anyone who disagrees with them on a point.

MM

 

[Gideon300]

The non-profit organization known as Focus on the Family (FotF), appears to be leading the charge forward to restore fallen "pastors" back to man-made, institutional ministry leadership...if not even the position they once held and had compromised through grievous sin that many don't seem to take seriously. I mean, the very name FotF shows what should be their aim toward "family," and now they are dabbling in the launch out into institutional church leadership issues.

Why?

For strange reasons that I can't seem to align with the name, some within the ranks of FotF appear to see themselves as authorized to assist and restore fallen, unqualified "pastors," to positions of institutionalized leadership roles through Freudian-Biblical mixtures of corrupt theology and secular, woke "forgiveness" as the basis for said restoration.

Some at FotF have tried to use God's handling of King David as a prime example for restoration to institutional church leadership. The problem with that is that there were no qualifying prerequisites to David becoming king. God chose David, sent the prophet Nathan to anoint him with oil, and David was chosen by the One who KNEW he was going to perpetrate murder and adultery. The FotF gang also seem to have forgotten that David also suffered judgement upon his reign as king, with the sword chasing his family like a curse because of his grievous sins.

So, if one is going to try and draw lines of parallel between fallen "pastors" and other biblical figures, then please apples to apples comparisons rather than apples to oranges. Reigning as the anointed king is not the same thing serving in institutional, pastoral leadership roles. That the gang at FotF can't seem to discern the distinction shines a glaring spotlight upon their own lack of leadership stature of biblical caliber.

What are your thoughts about all this?

For those who care to read what scripture has to say, here are a couple of contextual quotes:

1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5-9
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Compromisers behind pulpits are nothing but a recipe for greater compromises down the road, as we are seeing now in so many church and parachurch organizations all around the world. We are indeed in the last days when men will not abide sound doctrinal teaching. Instead, they want to forgive and restore. We should indeed forgive, but restoration...that is an entirely different matter.

MM

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated. The idea of a professional one man band leading a passive group of believers is a throwback to Catholicism. Most Catholic heresies have been ditched by Protestants, but not the role of Pastor.

The word "Pastor" is mentioned just a few times in the NT. The normal church should have a number of people who can preach and teach. Now we have "Pastors" for anything and everything. Life in the church is more important than structure, but organisation is necessary or you get anarchy.

Many churches here lack a Pastor or have only a stand in temporary. Why would anyone want to be a Pastor? Most congregations expect him to be available 24/7 for the most trivial of issues. Who can manage that load? Pastors often are bound to the office, often with an attractive young woman as his assistant. He sees more of her than he does his wife. What could possibly go wrong? Plenty, obviously.

It's too easy for Pastors to get so caught up in church management that their relationship with Lord Jesus suffers. For example, Merlin Carothers wife told him she was leaving him if he didn't get his act together. He recounts in one of his books how his spiritual life had suffered as he juggled the problems of the church. If anyone loses fellowship with God, he loses his strength to overcome temptation. He will be relying on his natural strengths and abilities. That may work in the secular realm, but never in the work of God's kingdom.

The Church needs to get back to being the Body of Christ as revealed in the NT. The "pyramid" structure is false and counterproductive.

 

[Magenta]

The same ones who scream and yell and cry and run away, or get violent, when approached with a view other than their own?

Yes. The ones who shrieked about needing protection while they rioted, looted, and burned down cities.

Hey, MM, interesting topic! Thank you for bringing it to our attention. FoF used to be on kari.com
weekdays in the early afternoon but they disappeared from that roster some time this past summer.

 

[Magenta]

Oops. kari55.com

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Woke-ness has many manifestations, all of which tend toward inconsistencies of all types. That's why I chose that terminology. It speaks to the intent and the meaning. There is no singular definition...especially in a world where words no longer mean much unless someone chooses to see such things as "micro-aggressions" in another's words as a battering ram to silence anyone who disagrees with them on a point.

MM

Agreed to disagree.

 

[Musicmaster]

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated. The idea of a professional one man band leading a passive group of believers is a throwback to Catholicism. Most Catholic heresies have been ditched by Protestants, but not the role of Pastor.

Good point. The "Protestants" mostly have remained clueless as to just how roman catholic they really are in practice and doctrine.

The word "Pastor" is mentioned just a few times in the NT. The normal church should have a number of people who can preach and teach. Now we have "Pastors" for anything and everything. Life in the church is more important than structure, but organisation is necessary or you get anarchy.

Anarchy is what they believe as being the only alternative to the iron-fisted control of the programmatic model. The skill required for successfully pulling off session after session of Aristotelian rhetoric each week, which they call the "sermon," this is part of what fuels the near worship of that position within the institutional model. FotF has for years talked about, and even sponsored, "Pastoral Retreats" so that the professional "pastors" can partake of resting in the pews or seats while some famous star "minister/teacher" preaches to them about how difficult their job is and that they are indispensable workers for God, with special blessings from God being upon them for being such wonderful workers in the faith...

What that has done is to fuel the sentiment behind this evil, demonic craze for restoring those who have fallen back to positions of leadership and ministry. After all, we should all forgive...right?

Therein lies the bait-n-switch methodology for manipulating sentiments upon which this thread was created to expose. The institutional model operates on the basis of never-minding the biblical qualification requirements for positions of doctrinal and spiritual leadership. The institutional model seems to always be above biblical constraints and directives, which actually makes perfect sense given that the institutional model is not biblically based, but rather man-made. Nowhere does the Bible speak of restoring fallen leaders back to their positions, where it DOES speak of restoring a brother in the faith back upon his moral legs.

Many churches here lack a Pastor or have only a stand in temporary. Why would anyone want to be a Pastor? Most congregations expect him to be available 24/7 for the most trivial of issues. Who can manage that load? Pastors often are bound to the office, often with an attractive young woman as his assistant. He sees more of her than he does his wife. What could possibly go wrong? Plenty, obviously.

That's why the wicked compromises within organizations like FotF step in to reinforce the status quo and restore those who have fallen back to their positions because of the difficulties of finding replacements who have the charisma and alleged stamina for fulfilling and maintaining the financial and numerical successes the fallen leaders failed to uphold through integrity. The larger organizations that have bigger incomes can afford for their "senior pastor" to hire in an army of helpers to delegate his work down to them in order to make the senior job easier and more manageable. Lay pastoring and pastoral staffing dabbles copiously in glamorizing the "service" of those people, very much like dangling a carrot in front of a mule.

This state of being is now beginning to strip away the glittery wrapping upon the institutional model as we watch more and more of them sink deeper and deeper into the sewage muck and mire of compromises with the world, revealing the filth of their façade and inner staffing of professionals who compromise their standing before the Lord. Watching liberal theologies taking stronger and stronger holds upon those man-made things that so many people practically worship, it's very sad to behold.

It's too easy for Pastors to get so caught up in church management that their relationship with Lord Jesus suffers. For example, Merlin Carothers wife told him she was leaving him if he didn't get his act together. He recounts in one of his books how his spiritual life had suffered as he juggled the problems of the church. If anyone loses fellowship with God, he loses his strength to overcome temptation. He will be relying on his natural strengths and abilities. That may work in the secular realm, but never in the work of God's kingdom.

That tends to assume that the institutional model is God-breathed, which it is not. Don't get me wrong...God has used the institutional model for centuries to His own ends, working in the lives of those involved and without, but when many out there turn around, pointing at the monetary and numerical "success" of the institutional model, populated by many people bound for Hell to a greater degree than most are willing to admit, its man-made origins begin to show the blemishes upon its filthy surface. The trillions of dollars poured into the luxuries the institutional model affords for itself, which is nothing more than the "givers" within lavishing their own giving back upon themselves by way of direct benefit, the hypocrisies of that system are laid bare to the spiritual eyes of those who are not blinded by the flash and glitter of it all. The emperor has no cloths...

The Church needs to get back to being the Body of Christ as revealed in the NT. The "pyramid" structure is false and counterproductive.

And as such it shall remain until the very end of the world with that model becoming more and more the instrument through which the coming man of sin, man of perdition, by way of the antichrist spirit, continues to morph and conform that model's doctrinal infrastructure into that which is completely conformed to the demonic, ecumenical, worldly system, thus lulling the masses into the death sleep of compromises, which is precisely what we're seeing in the drive to restore those who have fallen, restoring them back to positions for which they have completely disqualified themselves from the perspective of the very word of God.

MM

 

[Lynx]

I hear the sound of abundance of axes grinding.

This is just a hunch, but I get the impression you don't think much of focus on the family.

 

[Musicmaster]

I hear the sound of abundance of axes grinding.

This is just a hunch, but I get the impression you don't think much of focus on the family.

Let's just say that from the abundance of materials that have emanated from that organization, some good and some no so good, they have dabbled in various topics and areas where they clearly are not qualified when we consider the unbiblical thesis they rest upon within various topics and situations, with pastoral restoration being one of them. Anything beyond that latter item is beyond the scope of this thread.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I realize most here have not ever experienced being under a pastor who compromised his integrity and the pre-requisites for leaders who hold doctrinal and spiritual teaching authority. The problem is the doctrinal grounding so many out there lack who were or ARE under such men who have no business holding positions of leadership.

However, having said all that, the institutional model, being more of a business model than anything resembling a living organism, they are free to do whatever they want, even hiring into positions of leadership those who are living perverse lifestyles, given that the institutional model is man-made. Hiring anyone for a position is outside the scope and definition from within scripture, which renders moot any and all attempts to try and erect the institutional model upon the Bible.

What this means, then, is that each individual member of those things they call their "church" is responsible for his own growth and doctrinal stand that he or she chooses to adopt into their individual belief system. Nobody will be able to stand before His Throne and point at their previous "pastor" and point their finger of accusation at others for what they themselves chose to believe.

So, restoring hirelings within the institutional model, that is neither here nor there. What DOES make a difference is when those hirelings are viewed as leaders within the body of Christ. Therein is a vast expanse of difference between the two. The body of Christ populates and warms some of the seats within those institutional models, but that does not elevate the institutional model to the level of a living organism. The institutional model stands or falls on the basis of MONEY, which is not at all true of the body of Christ as a living organism.

MM

 

[Lynx]

I realize most here have not ever experienced being under a pastor who compromised his integrity and the pre-requisites for leaders who hold doctrinal and spiritual teaching authority. The problem is the doctrinal grounding so many out there lack who were or ARE under such men who have no business holding positions of leadership.

However, having said all that, the institutional model, being more of a business model than anything resembling a living organism, they are free to do whatever they want, even hiring into positions of leadership those who are living perverse lifestyles, given that the institutional model is man-made. Hiring anyone for a position is outside the scope and definition from within scripture, which renders moot any and all attempts to try and erect the institutional model upon the Bible.

What this means, then, is that each individual member of those things they call their "church" is responsible for his own growth and doctrinal stand that he or she chooses to adopt into their individual belief system. Nobody will be able to stand before His Throne and point at their previous "pastor" and point their finger of accusation at others for what they themselves chose to believe.

So, restoring hirelings within the institutional model, that is neither here nor there. What DOES make a difference is when those hirelings are viewed as leaders within the body of Christ. Therein is a vast expanse of difference between the two. The body of Christ populates and warms some of the seats within those institutional models, but that does not elevate the institutional model to the level of a living organism. The institutional model stands or falls on the basis of MONEY, which is not at all true of the body of Christ as a living organism.

MM

Why do you keep trying to convince us of this? None of us were on the committee that put these pastors back in place. We don't even know these guys.

 

[Cameron143]

Samuel anointed David. Nathan went and rebuked David for his sin.

 

[Musicmaster]

Why do you keep trying to convince us of this? None of us were on the committee that put these pastors back in place. We don't even know these guys.

The issue in all this is that a compromising "pastor" is coming the way of some here who WILL find themselves victims, and who may also find themselves feeling pity and the need to forgive to the point of restoring such men back into the pulpit. So, if they can be faced with the topic before it strikes their institutional "church," they can settle upon their reaction to it all beforehand, knowing that it is becoming more and more common than ever before...except with roman catholicism and all the plethora of priests and bishops who had abused boys under their care and oversight, and who may still be doing so to this day.

Where this may not be a big deal to you personally, chances are pretty good, given the numbers of these men who are falling these days within the ranks of institutional "pastors," you could very well find yourself sitting under such a man you thought was so far beyond such enticements in life. It can blind-side the congregation into shock, and the natural, unbiblical tendency is to forgive and reinstate.

So, what would be YOUR thoughts after finding out that your "pastor" was or is guilty of gross immorality, having compromised their qualifications for leadership? If you're sitting under some woman, well, they too can and do things immoral as well. It's not limited to men only. If you're sitting under a woman, then you're not sitting under a biblically qualified "pastor" at all, but just suppose...

MM

 

[Lynx]

If you're sitting under some woman, well, they too can and do things immoral as well. It's not limited to men only. If you're sitting under a woman, then you're not sitting under a biblically qualified "pastor" at all, but just suppose...

Ah. You're one of those.

I would listen to a female pastor before I would listen to somebody like you with a major ax to grind. And grind and grind and grind and grind and...

 

[Musicmaster]

Ah. You're one of those.

I would listen to a female pastor before I would listen to somebody like you with a major ax to grind. And grind and grind and grind and grind and...

What that says, then, is that you are among those who interpret scripture into saying what you want it to say. The idea that women are just as intelligent as any man to lead, that's not at all a basis for disobedience to the scriptural mandates. I'm not the one who will have to answer for your lack of adhering to the scriptures. You are responsible for your own beliefs.

MM

 

[Lynx]

What that says, then, is that you are among those who interpret scripture into saying what you want it to say. The idea that women are just as intelligent as any man to lead, that's not at all a basis for disobedience to the scriptural mandates. I'm not the one who will have to answer for your lack of adhering to the scriptures. You are responsible for your own beliefs.

MM

Now you are saying women are not as intelligent?

Go ahead, dig yourself a little deeper.

 

[Lynx]

What that says, then, is that you are among those who interpret scripture into saying what you want it to say. The idea that women are just as intelligent as any man to lead, that's not at all a basis for disobedience to the scriptural mandates. I'm not the one who will have to answer for your lack of adhering to the scriptures. You are responsible for your own beliefs.

MM

So...

The Bible is not supposed to be privately interpreted. You can't just put your own spin on it. So if your interpretation conflicts with observable reality, maybe you are trying to interpret it the wrong way.

Speaking of observable reality, I observed that all but one of the managers at my job are women. I also observe that our store makes the most out of any store in our district. And I do have to say this is one of the most pleasant work environments I have ever been a part of, to the extent that I have been here since 2009.

So that lesser intelligence thing of yours is not exactly supported by observable reality. Empirical evidence crashes here.

 

[RodB651]

So...

The Bible is not supposed to be privately interpreted. You can't just put your own spin on it. So if your interpretation conflicts with observable reality, maybe you are trying to interpret it the wrong way.

Speaking of observable reality, I observed that all but one of the managers at my job are women. I also observe that our store makes the most out of any store in our district. And I do have to say this is one of the most pleasant work environments I have ever been a part of, to the extent that I have been here since 2009.

So that lesser intelligence thing of yours is not exactly supported by observable reality. Empirical evidence crashes here.

🤦🤦🤦

 

[Musicmaster]

Now you are saying women are not as intelligent?

Go ahead, dig yourself a little deeper.

No, what I've shown here is that your reading comprehension skills need some work because you obviously didn't read what I said, or you're just being obtuse.

MM