L...,
The language presented does not suggest it only applies to back sliders..... It speaks of initially...to me.
OSAS= House Built on Sand
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L...,
The language presented does not suggest it only applies to back sliders..... It speaks of initially...to me.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Where is this passage of scripture that defines the works gospel as ANYTHING I do to be justified????
The works gospel is not defined as you doing anything at all to be saved. It is defined by you doing works of the law to be saved. You have to believe to be saved. That's hardly you trying to earn your own salvation by works. Paul said believing is exactly and diametrically opposed to you trying to earn your salvation by works. But your bungled up Calvinist doctrine has made it so even believing is now you trying to earn your won salvation.
We need to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine. I have studied the book of Job and I’m familiar enough with all Scripture to clearly understand the plan of salvation and that man is not sinless and perfect.
Did you see where "L" corrected his post in his follow-up post #915?
[the time-limit on this board makes it somewhat difficult to correct one's intent in the same post, but necessitates the follow-up post--check it out
]
If YOU profess to know ALL SCRIPTURE thats sad. Bevause the Bible is tge LIVING word of God..changes as a persons knowledge insight and maturity changes..but if you know it all..have nothing at all more to learn..well..hey..youre better than ALLof us!
J...,
LOL...where did that come from?
Never said I know, understand, without question...all scriptures....after 45 years..I add.
Best you study scripture....G-d's word ...changes not. People's proper understanding changes with scriptural maturity thru better understanding...but, scripture changes not.
Just in case you are thinking of using Job 1:1, which reads, "There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and turned away from evil" to further promote your agenda, you need to realize that the word "perfect" here does not mean that Job was sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time.
*Job had admitted his human sinfulness (Job 7:21; 13:26).
The word "perfect" which in Hebrew is "tam" does not necessarily imply absolute sinlessness. It signifies, rather, completeness, integrity, sincerity, but in a relative sense. The Hebrew term tam is equivalent to the Greek teleios, which is often translated perfect in the NT but which is better translated "full grown" or "mature."
In regards to man being sinless:
Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
Romans 3:23 - ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Either we have been accounted as righteous based on faith in Christ or else we have not. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Look at the context of the parable in Matthew.
Look how Jesus continues to explain what to do if a brother won’t listen.
12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17
If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.
But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
JPT
.where you said "it appears youre not familiar with all scriptures" to Dan..implies you ARE?
If I'm not mistaken, I understood Jewel's reference to "changes" to be in reference to her phrase "If YOU profess to know ALL SCRIPTURE"... meaning (as I believe is her intention), that we all learn and grow in our understanding of it. No one has a corner on it "ALL" (yet)
U
UnderGrace
Guest
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the word of God does not change but as we grow and mature we will gain more insight into His word? There is always more to learn on our end.
It contained that, and also this:
"Bevause the Bible is tge LIVING word of God..changes as a persons knowledge insight and maturity changes. "
My response was spot on, no need for anyone to be disingenuous. It's not hard to miss and is plainly stated.
The word of God is immutable.
You are right in saying that the understanding of the Word of God changes, as you spiritually mature your insight is deeper on what is actually being revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. It is very much a life-long process, "Line upon line, precept upon precept. A little here, a little there". Someone that says that nothing more to learn is in a serious state of denial.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Your understanding of the belief that saves is not biblical, that is the problem.
Faith is the instrument, not the grounds on which God justifies us; it is only the vehicle through which He justifies us.
It exactly because you make it the grounds of salvation that you make it a work.
We are not rewarded eternal life by our ongoing faith.
No one told me my salvation was eternal, it does not take much brains to see eternal means eternal.
What must I do to be saved?
One personal belief in one atoning/redeeming act.
It contained that, and also this:
"Bevause the Bible is tge LIVING word of God..changes as a persons knowledge insight and maturity changes. "
My response was spot on, no need for anyone to be disingenuous. It's not hard to miss and is plainly stated.
The word of God is immutable.
Here it is..when you FIRST read the Bible..probably as a new christian verses reading the Bible now..havent you gained insight and knowledge that you didnt have before? But yet the WORDS of the Bible havent changed..THATS my point..
R
Ralph-
Guest
I don't peddle the doctrine that works earn salvation. Salvation is through believing. You have to believe and continue to believe to be saved when Jesus comes back. Get the argument straight!
"to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness..."-Romans 4:5
'Believes' is in the PRESENT tense. The faith of the presently believing person is credited as righteousness.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Assurance is 'knowing' with surety that you are secure in salvation. And that surety--that knowing for sure you are saved--comes from being able to see the fruit of the Spirit in your character. The Bible exhorts us to be diligent to be obedient so we can be certain that we are called and chosen (saved):
"brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (vs.5-9), you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. "-2 Peter 1: 10-11
S
SpoonJuly
Guest
I see you are still working to keep yourself saved.
It is sad that you do not have enough faith in Jesus to keep you. You just have to help.
Its all about you.