Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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I agree, and scripture says so and I am sticking with scripture!!
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
So why does anyone reject? Hard of hearing? Thats right. They hear not.I agree, and scripture says so and I am sticking with scripture!!
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
Jesus' analysis here is precisely the same as His other statements on the matter.
I man that is just dead easy, and utterly devastatingly simple.
Jhn 8:47
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
The question remains: why? Because that is what God has ordained. And He has ordained others for glory.
Rom 9:23
and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
But remember, the Word itself and faith to believe and the miracle of eyes that are healed of blindness and ears that are healed of deafness DOES NOT ORIGINATE with the hearer.
All of these are GIFTS from OUTSIDE OURSELVES and originate from the Holy Ghost.
As do you.
You have provided the usual Calvinist prooftexts.
God gave people free will. Some people will choose to believe the gospel, others won't. Their choice is not God's doing. He wants everyone to be saved.
That God determines who will and who will not be saved is a doctrine of Calvinism.
.. that's Calvinism.
Some people humble themselves and decide to believe the gospel.
No it isn't. People have free will, the ability to choose to believe the gospel, or not.
It was given to them because they decided to believe.
They are blessed by God because they decided to believe.
It's an idiom. God wants people (everyone) to perceive, see, and hear. He wants everyone to be saved. He wanted Israel to obey Him, but they chose not to.
Same thing. God does not reject anyone who chooses to seek Him, something ANYONE can do.
Jesus is the object of a person's faith.
Putting our faith in Jesus for salvation (the gift) comes from being fully persuaded of the truth about someone and/or something.
Doubt precludes faith (Romans 14:23; Jas. 1:6, 7).
A single doubt about the gospel offer will keep one from saving faith.
The convicting and convincing ministry of both the Holy Spirit and the Word of God is enough to overcome any doubt. It is when men have hardened their hearts that the word of God is of none effect.
When one issue is answered, hardened men will come up with ten more; they determine to not consider the evidence.
So the Holy Ghost is a Calvinist?
Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
And Paul is a Calvinist?
2Th 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning (G746 - arche: "used absolutely, of the beginning of all things") chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Rom 8:29
For whom he did (1) foreknow, he also did (2) predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also (3) called: and whom he called, them he also (4) justified: and whom he justified, them he also (5) glorified.
Yes, this is a deliberate, calculated, well-thought-out carefully considered SEQUENCE.
And just to let you know......#3 is "called".....which occurs in the present.
#1 and #2 have ALREADY OCCURRED by the design and sovereign will of God in eternity past.
You being long on wind and short on Scriptures is not doing anybody much good buddy.
Is God the source of all good things? How about everything? Without exception?
Jas 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
THIS is the ONLY reason ANY of us has saving faithful perseverance. Every day, all day long.
Luk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
As you wish.
I will say that at one point I did believe in OSAS. This was around the time that I wasn't really reading the Bible that much, just listening to daily devotionals. When I began actually reading the Bible, everything slowly, and sometimes quickly, changed. I've studied the Bible, a lot. I know most people here would probably say that, but they haven't studied it like I have. I don't see the Bible through denominational lens, bias, or preference. I am also not afraid to approach difficult subjects and I'm not afraid of any of the subjects, even if they are burdensome or uncomfortable for me. I've even received death threats for believing what I do.
If you find out anything then I implore you to discover that the church has greatly misunderstood and misrepresented most of the Bible and nearly all of the widely-accepted doctrines. Nothing I say will itch your ears, you be the judge.
While I was working, I realized something and it's that I am most likely wasting my time here. Non-Christians are much more open to seeing what the Bible says. Those who have had their nose in it for a number of years tend to be the most close minded about it, ironically.
What do you make of Acts 15:8-9? And Ephesians 2:8?
And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He
did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Faith is undoubtedly a gift. It is part of the package of salvation, which itself is undoubtedly a gift also.
But absolutely I do agree that (1 Tim 2:4) and (2 Pet 3:9) are absolutely true and the true heart of God is to have all men be saved. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.
How God works all of this out is His business. He will save all that He wills according to His wisdom.
Let these verses sink into your mind....
Rom 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32
For God hath !!!! concluded them all in unbelief !!!!, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
I trust this will be informative. This business that we are somehow free agents and commanders of our destiny as regards faith and salvation needs to be reigned in.
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, !!!!and whom he will he hardeneth!!!!.
Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, !!!!and whom he will he hardeneth!!!!.
Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Your attitude is not conducive to my wanting to carry on a conversation with you.
Calvinists have their verses, people who believe in free will have their verses. Never the twain shall meet, at least in this life.
God is just. If God enabled some people to believe and not others, then He is not just.
God is love. Love is not making someone love you.
God responds to people's free will choices.
If you want to gain any traction you have better buck up and produce some verses bro. Right now you are holding an empty bag.
And no.....I am not a Calvinist.
Your notions of justice need to be refined by what the Bible actually says.
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
