Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Turning from sin is not how we are saved. Yes we turn from sin so that we can live a fruitful life but not to be saved.

Salvation is not I give God and He gives back. Nope.

“Sirs, vwhat must I do to be wsaved?” 31 And they said, x“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you yand your household.” Do we agree?

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Frankly, very little offends me. But even when I feel someone has been offensive I never feel the need to actually take offense. What someone may say to me or do to me will always be far less repulsive than what I have in my life said and done.

I also believe we reap what we have sown. Most see this as vengeance from God. I see it as a grace of God. As I experience from others the things I have done to others, I gain much understanding at the hurt and damage I have caused. This makes me much more sensitive to the way my words and deeds affect other people. It helps me to choose my words and actions more carefully.

Your example would have been more powerful if, instead of putting me as the example, you would have chosen Jesus.

Really? I thought the New Testament already provided that example of Jesus.

This unsubstantiated slur against a supposed pastor has received more attention than it was worth after the first refusal to show proof.

I am responsible for my part in asking for proof of a statement that implicated an alleged pastor in order to denigrate the gospels teaching of eternal salvation.

The first refusal was enough. I erred in thinking I could persuaded someone to exhibit ,draw on,what they do not actually possess.

Moving on. Again. ಠಿ⁠_⁠ಠಿ

 

[HeIsHere]

Oh I have no doubt that you can. But I believe it is saying exactly that. Sin cannot enter heaven. I understand when we come to Christ ours sins are under the blood. But that does not give us a licence to sin. The Word warns us against becoming "entangled in sin" again. We both agree that you cannot continue to live a sinful life and gain heaven, I think. Perhaps you don't agree.






Right, which is where we differ. I believe a person can walk away from salvation. I believe it because that's what the Word says.



The Jews are God's chosen people. We are grafted in. Rom says that we can be cut off. I don't see how that isn't talking about salvation.

Again you are confusing the various ways saved and faith are used in scripture depending on the context, words have various meanings reducing the word "salvation" to only mean spiritual salvation makes a mess of scripture and makes it contradictory.

You either believe all your sins, past present and future, are forgiven or you don't, there is no middle ground, your first paragraph is completely contradictory.

How much sin means salvation is revoked?

Again tell me where in scripture does God clearly outline how He will remove the "right with God" status of the believer

....not one person ever has been able to answer these simple questions, does God want to keep us guessing?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This unsubstantiated slur against a supposed pastor has received more attention than it was worth

It wouldn't have had you not called me a liar. Had you apologized we could have moved past it.

 

[HeIsHere]

“Sirs, vwhat must I do to be wsaved?” 31 And they said, x“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you yand your household.” Do we agree?

Yes I agree "believe in" means trust in His atoning work.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Again you are confusing the various ways saved and faith are used in scripture depending on the context, words have various meanings reducing the word "salvation" to only mean spiritual salvation makes a mess of scripture and makes it contradictory.

You either believe all your sins, past present and future, are forgiven or you don't, there is no middle ground, your first paragraph is completely contradictory.
How much sin means salvation is revoked?

Again tell me where in scripture does God clearly outline how He will remove the "right with God" status of the believer

....not one person ever has been able to answer these simple questions, does God want to keep us guessing?

Don't get me wrong. Steel sharpens steel. I use to have an issue when people didn't see things as I do. Now as I grow older and mature I see it either makes me more firm in what I believe, or I come your way. I'm on my way out the door but I would like to consider these questions more deeply.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I would like to consider these questions more deeply.

Amen! All Scriptures, prayerfully, Carefully, and Rightly
Divided (+ I and II), Correct?

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

 

[HeIsHere]

Don't get me wrong. Steel sharpens steel. I use to have an issue when people didn't see things as I do. Now as I grow older and mature I see it either makes me more firm in what I believe, or I come your way. I'm on my way out the door but I would like to consider these questions more deeply.

Agree we always need to continually re-examine our beliefs, I have moved as well over time on different facets of the faith.

Having said that I have always known eternal security to be absolutely irrefutable!!

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Agree we always need to continually re-examine our beliefs, I have moved as well over time on different facets of the faith.

Having said that I have always known eternal security to be absolutely irrefutable!!

Iron sharpens iron.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well, I can talk about all of the great things the Bible says, the blessings, the love, the forgiveness, the grace, the freedom and much more, but I wouldn't be helping if that's all I ever talked about. While those might feel good to hear, and trust me I definitely need to read them sometimes, they are only one side of the coin I think.

Yes of course, but let us not confuse or conflate, if one is continually trying to keep, maintain and hold onto personal salvation are they ever really able to do a good work, pray, worship, teach, evangelize solely for the glory of God?

Every good work is contaminated with a self serving motive of keeping or earning salvation, this is not the new covenant.

 

[Cameron143]

Really? I thought the New Testament already provided that example of Jesus.

This unsubstantiated slur against a supposed pastor has received more attention than it was worth after the first refusal to show proof.

I am responsible for my part in asking for proof of a statement that implicated an alleged pastor in order to denigrate the gospels teaching of eternal salvation.

The first refusal was enough. I erred in thinking I could persuaded someone to exhibit ,draw on,what they do not actually possess.

Moving on. Again. ಠಿ⁠_⁠ಠಿ

I think you missed my point altogether, but perhaps I missed yours as well. Blessings.

 

[BillG]

Yes of course, but let us not confuse or conflate, if one is continually trying to keep, maintain and hold onto personal salvation are they ever really able to do a good work, pray, worship, teach, evangelize solely for the glory of God?

Every good work is contaminated with a self serving motive of keeping or earning salvation, this is not the new covenant.

Amen sister.

You are a breath of fresh air on this thread and I'm sure you are on other threads as well.

 

[BillG]

As I begin part 2 of this blog series, I want to take just a moment to address something that I briefly mentioned in last weeks blog; and that is the "cute little Baptist saying" of "once saved always saved" (O.S.A.S.). Though I wouldn't say that I disagree with the true meaning behind the phrase, I believe that the flippant use of it has done more harm than good. The reason that I say that is because often times people mistakenly come to the conclusion that once an individual is saved they can then do whatever they want (cheat on their wife, get drunk every weekend, steal from the local grocery store, lie to your parents or your boss, etc.).

Reportedly, one baptist preacher even said this: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauchede a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell — in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (Bill Foster, The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959). This is absolutely atrocious! This pastor needs to repent of his sin and read his Bible!h

@wolfwint

https://www.blackgumfirstbaptistchurch.com/content.cfm?id=151&blog_id=2

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen sister.

You are a breath of fresh air on this thread and I'm sure you are on other threads as well.

Thank you kindly. I appreciate the feedback.
Nice to know there are others who believe the Gospel is indeed only eternal security, there is no good news otherwise.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The only one who is eternally secure at this point is Jesus. As long as we stay in the lifeboat with Him we're also secure; jump out of the lifeboat and tell Him we don't need Him any longer and I wouldn't count on hearing "well done good and faithful servant."

 

[Snacks]

The only one who is eternally secure at this point is Jesus. As long as we stay in the lifeboat with Him we're also secure; jump out of the lifeboat and tell Him we don't need Him any longer and I wouldn't count on hearing "well done good and faithful servant."

And therein lies your problem. You’re trying to navigate stormy seas while those of us who understand eternal security in Jesus Christ are already on dry land.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

I think you missed my point altogether, but perhaps I missed yours as well. Blessings.

Blessings.

 

[Runningman]

Yes of course, but let us not confuse or conflate, if one is continually trying to keep, maintain and hold onto personal salvation are they ever really able to do a good work, pray, worship, teach, evangelize solely for the glory of God?

Every good work is contaminated with a self serving motive of keeping or earning salvation, this is not the new covenant.

I don’t see it that way. I don’t really gain anything from going out of my way to do good works. I just do it for the glory of God. Actually, salvation isn’t even why I’m attracted to God in the first place. I’m here because I understand it to be my purpose God has assigned to me. It’s just for God’s glory and me being who I am brings God glory too.

So while it’s possible some may have ulterior motives, I don’t think that’s normal. I think your scenario is more characteristic of false disciples of Jesus than true disciples.

 

[BillG]

Thank you kindly. I appreciate the feedback.
Nice to know there are others who believe the Gospel is indeed only eternal security, there is no good news otherwise.

I won't go to deep but I will post the following and keep it short.

I had a severe gambling addiction.
I had sex before marriage
I carried the shame and guilt.

I tried to kill myself but it did not happen.

Here is the thing.

I believed in Jesus the son of God who died and rose again, yes i believe he rose physically. So I believe I was a believer.

Thing is i was questioned if in fact I was believer based on my lifestyle.

What is very very sad is that they assumed I was not without asking why I was struggling.

If only they had asked why I had a severe gambling addiction and so on?

Just judging.

If only they had asked.

Why and the cause of my behaviour?

No they won't.

Here we go.
Muslim background.

My mum threw me out, was fostered out.
To a Christian family.
Only to be sexually abused by foster dad.

I could go on and on.
I could talk about my earliest memory of my biology dad who I did know turning up and beating my mum up and the police turn up and beat him.

I stopped going to church for many years (and as shocking as it may seem I had a ministry in my church)

I never lost my faith in Jesus, I lost my faith in the church i was in.

I implore you all.
Please do not write people off based on their behaviour,.
Jesus didn't do that with hot headed Peter.

Please don't write people like I was.

If you do then to you are juging.

 

[BillG]

Matthew 14:22-31

Jesus Walks on the Sea
(Mark 6:45–52; John 6:15–21)
22 Immediately Jesus made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away.
23 And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there.
24 But the boat was now in the middle of the sea, tossed by the waves, for the wind was contrary.
25 Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.”
28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.”
29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”
31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”