Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ResidentAlien]

Think about this. If we know someone wasn't truly saved by their works, why are the saved judged if they do good works? For example, many say a person who rejects the Lord and falls back into sin was never saved in the first place. By saying this they're admitting that we shall know them by their fruit.

It seems to me eternal security folks like to drag out the accusation of "works salvation" when it applies to others but not to themselves. They want to have their doctrinal cake and eat it too.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I know you.

Nothing changes your mind on this topic. And you're a Moderator at a different site.

You don't understand because the natural mind cannot understand the things of God. For it is foolishness to them. Makes no sense.

We only understand when God, the Holy Spirit , enters in and leads us to understanding.

That's Bible. Eternally.

Is that all you have to offer in a Christian discussion is insults, and opinion?


I gave you scripture.


Why are you so toxic against the truth?


Please let us know how it is that you place your faith, the faith you received from Him when you heard the Gospel?


From the scriptures I listed, do you understand what it means to obey the gospel?



JPT

 

[Chester]

Don't worry about denominations. Stick with what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - whoever believes possesses eternal life.
John 10:28 - recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:27, 28 actually say this:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

 

[FreeGrace2]

You know, this is another platform where ad infinitum arguments will never change minds.

In fact its been my experience when such occurs people tend to dig in , rather than open up to realize they may be mistaken in how they understand the word.

Those who think being a sinner is commensurate with Christian are right.

No one thinks that. We think being a sinner is commensurate with being a human being. Do you see any difference here?

To claim you are no longer a sinner is untrue, as the Bible is clear that believers continue to sin. Otherwise, there would be no need for 1 John 1:9. Do you know why all believers need to know and apply that verse?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Don't worry about denominations. Stick with what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - whoever believes possesses eternal life.
John 10:28 - recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:27, 28 actually say this:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

Yes it does say that. However, v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO. There are no words of a conditional clause in v.27 that links to v.28.

v.28 is a simple statement of the result of being given eternal life. And that makes Arminian's hair on fire.

So they reject the clear and plain words of John 10:28.

v.28 is a statement about eternal security. Without a doubt.

John 5:24 tells us that believers possess eternal life. Prove me wrong from Scripture.
John 10:28 tells us that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Prove me wrong from Scripture.

That's how you win an argument. You prove the other guy wrong with evidence. Do you have any?

If either verse clearly says something different, prove it.

If you can't do any of my challenges, then we know that I'm right. And you should believe it.

 

[Snacks]

If saved means saved, what are the implications of that if applied to the scenario I asked about? That's was my question. A question you keep dodging because it obviously makes you uncomfortable. It's clear I'll never get a straight answer so I'll leave you be; I don't want to antagonize you.

If anyone else has any thoughts feel free to chime in.

Implications in your scenario, if any, do not pertain to loss of salvation. On another note, if you want to try to antagonize me, have at it. I find it amusing.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Implications in your scenario, if any, do not pertain to loss of salvation. On another note, if you want to try to antagonize me, have at it. I find it amusing.

Nah, I've already let it go. I have better things to do.

 

[Snacks]

You know, this is another platform where ad infinitum arguments will never change minds.

In fact its been my experience when such occurs people tend to dig in , rather than open up to realize they may be mistaken in how they understand the word.

Those who think being a sinner is commensurate with Christian are right.
And I see that as such because it is God's way of showing us what was mentioned earlier here.

How to know the Wheat from the Tares.

If someone identifies as a sinner and claims they're a Christian, what testimony are they affording those who are seeking an answer to what it means to be a Christian?

Christians are saved?
From what? When that one tells us they're still a sinner who sins?

Now we're here arguing another point to death. Again.

And note , how we argue reflects upon our spiritual state as well. Wheat,Tares.

I think if we seek to hurt someone's feelings in order to shut them up and drive our point home, that's contrary to the teaching of grace.

Yet, it does maybe serve to prove they were right about the other issue.

They're sinners. Who sinned. If we have to speak hate to defend grace we're lost in ego.
Not saved in Christ.

And this latest issue.

If someone thinks they have to work to stay saved, OK.

It isn't Bible but OK.

Here's why it's OK in my view.

If they think they have to work to insure God keeps his word, maybe they'll do good for people while thinking to earn their salvation.

And if doing good makes their spot in the world a better place for self and others, thank God.

Either way, God knows his sheep. And they know him.

In the end we all find out who was right,after were dead.

Now we just seem to argue points in order to imply or infer, ''I am!'And here's why.''

And that's OK too. Because it's a forum. And it's all we've got to talk about.


Anonymously.
On the web.

When in true truth, God only knows.

Be the love of Christ.
''For some people we'll be the only Bible they ever see.''

Is it the Christian Bible?

Or the Satanic?

We only know.

Blessed Be people.

When’s the last time you sinned?

 

[Snacks]

Nah, I've already let it go. I have better things to do.

If that means you’re not going to correspond with me anymore then you just made my day. Thank you.

On another note, it would break my heart for you if you fall just one good work short of earning your salvation.

 

[Chester]

FreeGrace2 said:
Don't worry about denominations. Stick with what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - whoever believes possesses eternal life.
John 10:28 - recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Yes it does say that. However, v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO. There are no words of a conditional clause in v.27 that links to v.28.

v.28 is a simple statement of the result of being given eternal life. And that makes Arminian's hair on fire.

So they reject the clear and plain words of John 10:28.

v.28 is a statement about eternal security. Without a doubt.

John 5:24 tells us that believers possess eternal life. Prove me wrong from Scripture.
John 10:28 tells us that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Prove me wrong from Scripture.

That's how you win an argument. You prove the other guy wrong with evidence. Do you have any?

If either verse clearly says something different, prove it.

If you can't do any of my challenges, then we know that I'm right. And you should believe it.

John 10:28 does not say "the recipients of eternal life shall never perish." It says "they shall never perish".

Your interpretation of they is that it is "the recipients of eternal life." My interpretation of they is that it is "my sheep".

Our argument is over our interpretations of the text, not over what the text says.

 

[Grandpa]

If a person is saved and walks with the Lord for ten years, then falls away for five years, then returns and walks with the Lord for 15 years, then falls away again for ten years, and finally returns and walks with Lord until his death, was he saved to begin with? How do you know which salvation, if any, was genuine?

What do you mean by "walks with the Lord" and "falls away"?

If you mean "saved", "not saved", "saved again", "not saved again", "saved again" I think you just don't understand Salvation.

Which is what I generally think, anyway.


Being Saved is like being married. Your relationship may vary from time to time in how close you feel to each other. Sometimes you might not even want to be married. Sometimes you might think being married is great. But none of those thoughts or experiences changes the fact that you are married.

Same with Salvation.

 

[ZNP]

2Corinthians 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

As you read these posts, some may be a sweet savour to you, that is how the testimony of a believer is supposed to smell to a believer. Others may have a nasty stench. If you smell rotten eggs that is what "fool's gold" is made out of. Sulfur is also the smell from the pit of hell.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 10:28 does not say "the recipients of eternal life shall never perish." It says "they shall never perish".

OK, let's see the proof of my statement.

When Jesus SAID "I GIVE THEM eternal life" that means "them" ARE recipients of eternal life. Clear and simple.

Your interpretation of they is that it is "the recipients of eternal life." My interpretation of they is that it is "my sheep".

OK. There is no difference. Both "them" and "they" of v.28 ARE "My sheep".

It's interesting how you completely jumped way over "I given them eternal life". How could you have missed the very first part of v.28?

Our argument is over our interpretations of the text, not over what the text says.

No it's not. It is about how you completley miss the important parts of the verse.

v.28 - I give them eternal life and they shall never perish.

Both "them" and "they" are "My sheep" from v.27. When Jesus says He gives His sheep eternal life, that means His sheep ARE RECIPIENTS of eternal life.

How in the world would you argue against that FACT?

When you are given something, you become a RECIPIENT of that something. There is no argument about that.

So, now that you've been forced to see v.28a and WHO are recipients, the verse clearly says recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So, are you willing to believe that all believers are given eternal life? So, all believers are recipients of eternal life.

That means all believers have been guaranteed eternal security by THAT FACT.

In fact, from the moment one becomes a believer, they possess eternal life because they are recipients of eternal life, and Jesus SAYS they shall never perish.

v.28 - I give them (BELIEVERS) eternal life and they (BELIEVERS) shall never perish.

Is this becoming more clear to you?

Since there are no verses that say anything about a believer losing eternal life, for any reason, this means from the moment they become believers, they shall never perish.

Your turn.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What do you mean by "walks with the Lord" and "falls away"?

If you mean "saved", "not saved", "saved again", "not saved again", "saved again" I think you just don't understand Salvation.

Which is what I generally think, anyway.


Being Saved is like being married. Your relationship may vary from time to time in how close you feel to each other. Sometimes you might not even want to be married. Sometimes you might think being married is great. But none of those thoughts or experiences changes the fact that you are married.

Same with Salvation.

It is good to view salvation like the marriage relationship, since the Bible uses that terminology as well. We have the Groom and the Bride.

Now, we know that earthly marriages can be broken and ended. Do you view salvation in that way?

Recall that in God's economy, He said "let no man put asunder". iow, marriage is a permanent relationship.

However, those who still strain at that parallel, we also have the biblical wording of the parent-child relationship. Once born, neither the child nor the parent can end that permanent relationship, which is proven by the parent's DNA IN the child.

Even though the relationship can be marred and the relationship be hostile, etc, that relationship cannot be severed. You will ALWAYS be your parents' child, and they will always be your parents.

And in the salvation relationship, the believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit to PROVE that the believer is a child of God. Think of spiritual DNA.

 

[ResidentAlien]

What do you mean by "walks with the Lord" and "falls away"?

If you mean "saved", "not saved", "saved again", "not saved again", "saved again" I think you just don't understand Salvation.

Which is what I generally think, anyway.


Being Saved is like being married. Your relationship may vary from time to time in how close you feel to each other. Sometimes you might not even want to be married. Sometimes you might think being married is great. But none of those thoughts or experiences changes the fact that you are married.

Same with Salvation.

Can you be more specific about the hypothetical person in this scenario? Was he ever saved, and how would you know?

 

[Snacks]

2Corinthians 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

As you read these posts, some may be a sweet savour to you, that is how the testimony of a believer is supposed to smell to a believer. Others may have a nasty stench. If you smell rotten eggs that is what "fool's gold" is made out of. Sulfur is also the smell from the pit of hell.

Someone who doesn’t trust the fullness of God’s promises through Christ’s death, burial and resurrection talking about rotten eggs, sulfur and fools gold. What a calamity!

 

[Snacks]

Can you be more specific about the hypothetical person in this scenario? Was he ever saved, and how would you know?

@Grandpa
Be patient with this one, and type slowly.

 

[ZNP]

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Chester]

OK, let's see the proof of my statement.

When Jesus SAID "I GIVE THEM eternal life" that means "them" ARE recipients of eternal life. Clear and simple.


OK. There is no difference. Both "them" and "they" of v.28 ARE "My sheep".

It's interesting how you completely jumped way over "I given them eternal life". How could you have missed the very first part of v.28?


No it's not. It is about how you completley miss the important parts of the verse.

v.28 - I give them eternal life and they shall never perish.

Both "them" and "they" are "My sheep" from v.27. When Jesus says He gives His sheep eternal life, that means His sheep ARE RECIPIENTS of eternal life.

How in the world would you argue against that FACT?

When you are given something, you become a RECIPIENT of that something. There is no argument about that.

So, now that you've been forced to see v.28a and WHO are recipients, the verse clearly says recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So, are you willing to believe that all believers are given eternal life? So, all believers are recipients of eternal life.

That means all believers have been guaranteed eternal security by THAT FACT.

In fact, from the moment one becomes a believer, they possess eternal life because they are recipients of eternal life, and Jesus SAYS they shall never perish.

v.28 - I give them (BELIEVERS) eternal life and they (BELIEVERS) shall never perish.

Is this becoming more clear to you?

Since there are no verses that say anything about a believer losing eternal life, for any reason, this means from the moment they become believers, they shall never perish.

Your turn.

I will just stick to what the text says:

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

For myself, I know that I am a sheep of Jesus! Amen and thank you, Lord! I am hearing him and following Him. He (Jesus) knows me. And he is giving me eternal life, and I will never perish, nor will any man pluck me out of His hand!

That is good enough for me! I rest in Him!

 

[FreeGrace2]

I will just stick to what the text says:

How about that! That's exactly what I'm asking YOU to do. READ the text.

John 10:27,28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

For myself, I know that I am a sheep of Jesus! Amen and thank you, Lord! I am hearing him and following Him. He (Jesus) knows me. And he is giving me eternal life, and I will never perish, nor will any man pluck me out of His hand!

That is good enough for me! I rest in Him!

So you're just going to ignore the fantastic statement Jesus made about eternal security, huh.

I asked you to realize that the "them" and "they" in v.28 are His sheep. They are believers, which is proven in John 5:24.

Why do you continue to resist eternal security when the plain words are directly in front of you?