Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Okay, I agree salvation can't be earned. But let me ask: After we believe and are saved, are we allowed to do anything for the Lord? Or must we refrain for fear of trying to earn salvation?
If you really love and adore someone, how do you want to show them or treat them, But if you don't separate works from salvation its because you are trying to earn it
 
Oct 20, 2022
352
121
43
How do you “place your faith” in Jesus Christ?

The way faith comes to us, is by hearing His word, hearing His voice speak to us.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17


Faith comes to us from God. Why would you give it back to Him, or place the faith you have received from Him back in Him.


Makes no sense.


Do you understand how we obey the Gospel; what it means to obey the Gospel that you hear?



JLB
I know you.

Nothing changes your mind on this topic. And you're a Moderator at a different site.

You don't understand because the natural mind cannot understand the things of God. For it is foolishness to them. Makes no sense.

We only understand when God, the Holy Spirit , enters in and leads us to understanding.

That's Bible. Eternally.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,242
1,641
113
Midwest
The keywords in your scenario are, “is saved”. There’s your answer.
No, that's no answer. That's a guessing game.
The Confusion of the guessing game of "is saved, is BEING saved,
or, WILL BE saved," is over:

The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not
trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He
will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10)

FULL study here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
OSAS only really works under Calvinist TULIP, particularly Total Depravity, which claims man cannot really do anything
good. And that is a fallacy, and contrary to virtually the entire Bible, especially if we're speaking of the justified. smh.
Wouldn't that be the natural man apart from God's grace? And even the saved: For apart from Me you can do nothing.

For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
OSAS only really works under Calvinist TULIP, particularly Total Depravity, which claims man cannot really do anything
good. And that is a fallacy, and contrary to virtually the entire Bible, especially if we're speaking of the justified. smh.
The Bible teaches that there are none good, all are unrighteous; that only God is good <= Jesus said so :)

Shake your head all you want LOL. People think being "a good person" will save them, whereas
the Bible teaches, salvation by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
No, that's no answer. That's a guessing game.
It’s no guessing game whatsoever. If hearing the word of God, repenting of your sins and placing your faith in Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior isn’t good enough for your salvation then I fear your loss.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,432
3,684
113
It’s no guessing game whatsoever. If hearing the word of God, repenting of your sins and placing your faith in Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior isn’t good enough for your salvation then I fear your loss.
That doesn't have anything to do with my question but that's okay. If you were honest you'd have to say you don't know if this person was ever truly saved or not.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
13,021
1,154
113
Is a highly debated topic amongst christians. I grew up Baptist and they always talked once saved always saved doctrine.
But there are some Christian denominations who do not teach this doctrine
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Do you have a verse that teaches this? The key word here is "requires".
It’s generally demonstrated in the Bible that in order to receive God’s promise, some literal actions were required. I said normally in my last post and then generally here because there is at least one possible exception that comes to mind.

The below passage explains it pretty good I think. If it doesn’t mean “don’t be disobedient” and “go do something” then it’s irrelevant to Christians.

Hebrews 4:6-11
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I get that idea from Jesus in Matthew

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, you will recognize them by their fruits.

I get the idea from Jesus in Luke

Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

I get the idea from Jesus in Mark

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I get the idea from Jesus in John

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I get the idea from John

1John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you will know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

I get the idea from Paul

1Timothy 6:3-4 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.

I get the idea from James

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I get the idea from Peter

2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

I get the idea from Jude

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
So, pretty much phonies who are obviously not being obedient to the Lord.

So, for those who attend an evangelical church, we don't try to figure out if someone who offends you is saved or not, we instead treat them as brothers, but distance yourself from them.

2 Thess 3-
10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.
12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.
13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.
14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.
15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Yeah, I can quote Scripture too.

The problem is the busybodies who think they can figure out who is saved or not by their works.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
That doesn't have anything to do with my question but that's okay. If you were honest you'd have to say you don't know if this person was ever truly saved or not.
I do know and have already told you, saved means exactly that ~~ saved. If you believe works are necessary for your salvation, you’re failing miserably. Your antagonistic attitude is always on full display and it’s sorely lacking God’s love for one’s neighbors. You’re literally guilty of not following one of the two greatest commandments. smh
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Is a highly debated topic amongst christians. I grew up Baptist and they always talked once saved always saved doctrine.
But there are some Christian denominations who do not teach this doctrine
Don't worry about denominations. Stick with what Jesus said.

John 5:24 - whoever believes possesses eternal life.
John 10:28 - recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a verse that teaches this? The key word here is "requires".
It’s generally demonstrated in the Bible that in order to receive God’s promise, some literal actions were required. I said normally in my last post and then generally here because there is at least one possible exception that comes to mind.
I was thinking about what "requires" refers to. If it refers to salvation, then the ONLY requirement is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul said exactly that in Acts 16:31 to a jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. Very straightforward.

The below passage explains it pretty good I think. If it doesn’t mean “don’t be disobedient” and “go do something” then it’s irrelevant to Christians.

Hebrews 4:6-11
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
Do you understand what the author is referring to by "rest"? Most think it refers to salvation, but it refers to reward.

The promised land had to be conquered in order to be entered. They had to work for it. The result was resting in the blessings of the land.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,432
3,684
113
I do know and have already told you, saved means exactly that ~~ saved. If you believe works are necessary for your salvation, you’re failing miserably. Your antagonistic attitude is always on full display and it’s sorely lacking God’s love for one’s neighbors. You’re literally guilty of not following one of the two greatest commandments. smh
If saved means saved, what are the implications of that if applied to the scenario I asked about? That's was my question. A question you keep dodging because it obviously makes you uncomfortable. It's clear I'll never get a straight answer so I'll leave you be; I don't want to antagonize you.

If anyone else has any thoughts feel free to chime in.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Something that helped me here was that Jesus seeks and saves lost sheep.
There are no instances where goats are transformed into sheep.
The wheat and tares is instructive in that we are unable to distinguish one from the other.
The disciples didn't know it was Judas who would betray Christ. Paul didn't know Demos
would fall away. And in 1 John, the apostle says he only knew some weren't of them when
they left. If apostles couldn't anticipate these things, few are likely to.
Worth noting too, that when Jesus let it be known He was going to be
betrayed,
one by one they (the apostles) said to Him, “Surely not I?"
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
Worth noting too, that when Jesus let it be known He was going to be
betrayed,
one by one they (the apostles) said to Him, “Surely not I?"
Exactly how much is noting worth? I'm doing a noting cost based analysis.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a verse that teaches this? The key word here is "requires".

I was thinking about what "requires" refers to. If it refers to salvation, then the ONLY requirement is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul said exactly that in Acts 16:31 to a jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. Very straightforward.


Do you understand what the author is referring to by "rest"? Most think it refers to salvation, but it refers to reward.

The promised land had to be conquered in order to be entered. They had to work for it. The result was resting in the blessings of the land.
11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

We aren’t conquering a promised land in order to enter it, but the consequence of disobedience is still perishing none the less.
 
Oct 20, 2022
352
121
43
You know, this is another platform where ad infinitum arguments will never change minds.

In fact its been my experience when such occurs people tend to dig in , rather than open up to realize they may be mistaken in how they understand the word.

Those who think being a sinner is commensurate with Christian are right.
And I see that as such because it is God's way of showing us what was mentioned earlier here.

How to know the Wheat from the Tares.

If someone identifies as a sinner and claims they're a Christian, what testimony are they affording those who are seeking an answer to what it means to be a Christian?

Christians are saved?
From what? When that one tells us they're still a sinner who sins?

Now we're here arguing another point to death. Again.

And note , how we argue reflects upon our spiritual state as well. Wheat,Tares.

I think if we seek to hurt someone's feelings in order to shut them up and drive our point home, that's contrary to the teaching of grace.

Yet, it does maybe serve to prove they were right about the other issue.

They're sinners. Who sinned. If we have to speak hate to defend grace we're lost in ego.
Not saved in Christ.

And this latest issue.

If someone thinks they have to work to stay saved, OK.

It isn't Bible but OK.

Here's why it's OK in my view.

If they think they have to work to insure God keeps his word, maybe they'll do good for people while thinking to earn their salvation.

And if doing good makes their spot in the world a better place for self and others, thank God.

Either way, God knows his sheep. And they know him.

In the end we all find out who was right,after were dead.

Now we just seem to argue points in order to imply or infer, ''I am!'And here's why.''

And that's OK too. Because it's a forum. And it's all we've got to talk about.


Anonymously.
On the web.

When in true truth, God only knows.

Be the love of Christ.
''For some people we'll be the only Bible they ever see.''

Is it the Christian Bible?

Or the Satanic?

We only know.

Blessed Be people.❤️💞✝️🕊️