Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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If you really love and adore someone, how do you want to show them or treat them, But if you don't separate works from salvation its because you are trying to earn it
I know you.
Nothing changes your mind on this topic. And you're a Moderator at a different site.
You don't understand because the natural mind cannot understand the things of God. For it is foolishness to them. Makes no sense.
We only understand when God, the Holy Spirit , enters in and leads us to understanding.
That's Bible. Eternally.
The Confusion of the guessing game of "is saved, is BEING saved,
or, WILL BE saved," is over:
The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not
trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He
will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10)
FULL study here:
Grace, Peace, And JOY!
Wouldn't that be the natural man apart from God's grace? And even the saved: For apart from Me you can do nothing.
For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
The Bible teaches that there are none good, all are unrighteous; that only God is good <= Jesus said so
Shake your head all you want LOL. People think being "a good person" will save them, whereas
the Bible teaches, salvation by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.
It’s no guessing game whatsoever. If hearing the word of God, repenting of your sins and placing your faith in Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior isn’t good enough for your salvation then I fear your loss.
That doesn't have anything to do with my question but that's okay. If you were honest you'd have to say you don't know if this person was ever truly saved or not.
It’s generally demonstrated in the Bible that in order to receive God’s promise, some literal actions were required. I said normally in my last post and then generally here because there is at least one possible exception that comes to mind.
The below passage explains it pretty good I think. If it doesn’t mean “don’t be disobedient” and “go do something” then it’s irrelevant to Christians.
Hebrews 4:6-11
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
So, pretty much phonies who are obviously not being obedient to the Lord.
So, for those who attend an evangelical church, we don't try to figure out if someone who offends you is saved or not, we instead treat them as brothers, but distance yourself from them.
2 Thess 3-
10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.
12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.
13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.
14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.
15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.
Yeah, I can quote Scripture too.
The problem is the busybodies who think they can figure out who is saved or not by their works.
I do know and have already told you, saved means exactly that ~~ saved. If you believe works are necessary for your salvation, you’re failing miserably. Your antagonistic attitude is always on full display and it’s sorely lacking God’s love for one’s neighbors. You’re literally guilty of not following one of the two greatest commandments. smh
Don't worry about denominations. Stick with what Jesus said.
John 5:24 - whoever believes possesses eternal life.
John 10:28 - recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a verse that teaches this? The key word here is "requires".
Paul said exactly that in Acts 16:31 to a jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. Very straightforward.
The promised land had to be conquered in order to be entered. They had to work for it. The result was resting in the blessings of the land.
Do you have a verse that teaches this? The key word here is "requires".
I was thinking about what "requires" refers to. If it refers to salvation, then the ONLY requirement is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul said exactly that in Acts 16:31 to a jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. Very straightforward.
Do you understand what the author is referring to by "rest"? Most think it refers to salvation, but it refers to reward.
The promised land had to be conquered in order to be entered. They had to work for it. The result was resting in the blessings of the land.
If saved means saved, what are the implications of that if applied to the scenario I asked about? That's was my question. A question you keep dodging because it obviously makes you uncomfortable. It's clear I'll never get a straight answer so I'll leave you be; I don't want to antagonize you.
If anyone else has any thoughts feel free to chime in.
Worth noting too, that when Jesus let it be known He was going to be
betrayed, one by one they (the apostles) said to Him, “Surely not I?"
11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
We aren’t conquering a promised land in order to enter it, but the consequence of disobedience is still perishing none the less.
You know, this is another platform where ad infinitum arguments will never change minds.
In fact its been my experience when such occurs people tend to dig in , rather than open up to realize they may be mistaken in how they understand the word.
Those who think being a sinner is commensurate with Christian are right.
And I see that as such because it is God's way of showing us what was mentioned earlier here.
How to know the Wheat from the Tares.
If someone identifies as a sinner and claims they're a Christian, what testimony are they affording those who are seeking an answer to what it means to be a Christian?
Christians are saved?
From what? When that one tells us they're still a sinner who sins?
Now we're here arguing another point to death. Again.
And note , how we argue reflects upon our spiritual state as well. Wheat,Tares.
I think if we seek to hurt someone's feelings in order to shut them up and drive our point home, that's contrary to the teaching of grace.
Yet, it does maybe serve to prove they were right about the other issue.
They're sinners. Who sinned. If we have to speak hate to defend grace we're lost in ego.
Not saved in Christ.
And this latest issue.
If someone thinks they have to work to stay saved, OK.
It isn't Bible but OK.
Here's why it's OK in my view.
If they think they have to work to insure God keeps his word, maybe they'll do good for people while thinking to earn their salvation.
And if doing good makes their spot in the world a better place for self and others, thank God.
Either way, God knows his sheep. And they know him.
In the end we all find out who was right,after were dead.
Now we just seem to argue points in order to imply or infer, ''I am!'And here's why.''
And that's OK too. Because it's a forum. And it's all we've got to talk about.
Anonymously.
On the web.
When in true truth, God only knows.
Be the love of Christ.
''For some people we'll be the only Bible they ever see.''
Is it the Christian Bible?
Or the Satanic?
We only know.
Blessed Be people.
In fact its been my experience when such occurs people tend to dig in , rather than open up to realize they may be mistaken in how they understand the word.
Those who think being a sinner is commensurate with Christian are right.
And I see that as such because it is God's way of showing us what was mentioned earlier here.
How to know the Wheat from the Tares.
If someone identifies as a sinner and claims they're a Christian, what testimony are they affording those who are seeking an answer to what it means to be a Christian?
Christians are saved?
From what? When that one tells us they're still a sinner who sins?
Now we're here arguing another point to death. Again.
And note , how we argue reflects upon our spiritual state as well. Wheat,Tares.
I think if we seek to hurt someone's feelings in order to shut them up and drive our point home, that's contrary to the teaching of grace.
Yet, it does maybe serve to prove they were right about the other issue.
They're sinners. Who sinned. If we have to speak hate to defend grace we're lost in ego.
Not saved in Christ.
And this latest issue.
If someone thinks they have to work to stay saved, OK.
It isn't Bible but OK.
Here's why it's OK in my view.
If they think they have to work to insure God keeps his word, maybe they'll do good for people while thinking to earn their salvation.
And if doing good makes their spot in the world a better place for self and others, thank God.
Either way, God knows his sheep. And they know him.
In the end we all find out who was right,after were dead.
Now we just seem to argue points in order to imply or infer, ''I am!'And here's why.''
And that's OK too. Because it's a forum. And it's all we've got to talk about.
Anonymously.
On the web.
When in true truth, God only knows.
Be the love of Christ.
''For some people we'll be the only Bible they ever see.''
Is it the Christian Bible?
Or the Satanic?
We only know.
Blessed Be people.