Omitted verses.

[John146]

So now you say that we are constraint to BOTH English only and NJV only?

Do you feel this way as you read most of the OT? Only written in one language to one people group, the Jews?

 

[John146]

Or could we say that either has mostly pristine signal but each with a few discrete errors. These errors can for the most part be detected by overlaying and checking with other copies of the code.

Yes, that is an option. No version is the true word of God. All versions contain errors and cannot be fully trusted. But, this would make you the final authority. No thank you, for me. I'm not in to figuring out which to believe for any given verse. I read and study what I have and leave it alone. That's enough for me.

 

[Raggedcloth]

I don't know if it originates with Braden; however, it's interesting that he says it comes from the "original manuscripts" but doesn't say what manuscripts he's talking about. If he was a professional, and knew the source, he'd say it. Oddly, in a footnote, he attributes it to a native american writer, Shonto Begay. When you read Braden's book, it's clear he's a big fan of the Essene and Gnostic texts. He's a mystic and draws on a lot of extra-Biblical sources. So in summary, there's no legitimate source for this passage; if there were, it would would show up somewhere in a Bible translation.

There's a project underway called the Coherence Based Genealogical Method (CBGM). It uses computers to collate and analyze Bible manuscripts to come up with the best reading. But it's biased and doesn't use and manuscripts from the Byzantine family. Because of this I'd have to label it a farce.

Then there's the Greek New Testament According To The Majority Text by Hodges and Farstad. It does basically the same thing as the CBGM but with Byzantine manuscripts. There's another Greek New Testament based on the Majority Text by Robinson and Pierpont; also the Byzantine family. There are a few English translations based on these works but not very many.

There is no official "canon" of New Testament manuscripts; as I said before, it all comes down to a person's preference. However, there's a general consensus about which ones are potentially legit and acceptable and which are not. Gnostic manuscripts aren't legit.

Wow, that is very helpful. I found those supposed verses in a post from some random guy on a Twitter group lol. I wish I had written his name in my notes, it might have been Branden. I'm not familiar with any methods of verifying text that might be legitimate, and that makes me a neophyte. I'm only vaguely aware of various efforts to put together a trustworthy Bible (the Council of Nicea, the Council of Trent, the Diet of Vorms) but know nothing about them. Now I realize that verifying text requires a larger body of knowledge than I expected, and in the little time I have left in my earthly life I really can't expect to do that on my own. So I thank you all for educating me. The discussion is very interesting. Check this out: I've decided to stick with what the NIV Bible provides because that was handed to me when I was an infant in Christ (I know it's controversies), and also to use the New American Standard Bible for parallel reading. What do you think about my choice? (I'm not comfortable with the King James Only movement, but I know they have good points to make. I just don't have time to learn all of this). Again, to everybody, thank you for your diligence.

 

[cv5]

Do you feel this way as you read most of the OT? Only written in one language to one people group, the Jews?

Yet the Church is made up of every kindred, tongue people and nation.
Do you expect all of them to master Hebrew, Greek and English?

 

[cv5]

Yes, that is an option. No version is the true word of God. All versions contain errors and cannot be fully trusted. But, this would make you the final authority. No thank you, for me. I'm not in to figuring out which to believe for any given verse. I read and study what I have and leave it alone. That's enough for me.

OK. I do believe the KJV is aces. A very fine rendition. But I make use of a LOT of other translations too when I am examining at a very high resolution. You almost have to in some situations.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Check this out: I've decided to stick with what the NIV Bible provides because that was handed to me when I was an infant in Christ (I know it's controversies), and also to use the New American Standard Bible for parallel reading. What do you think about my choice?

I like the New King James Version. And I have a couple of Bibles based on the Majority Text which I uses with a Bible app. If you're genuinely seeking the Lord it's hard to go wrong. He'll lead you in the direction that's right for you.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Or could we say that either has mostly pristine signal but each with a few discrete errors. These errors can for the most part be detected by overlaying and checking with other copies of the code.

So, IF someone points out 'error' in the (ONE) Book, I should then study the
other (?105+) copies of so-called 'code' to hopefully "find the Correction"?
What happens IF "the few discrete errors" Multiply into Many?

How, exactly would that be "redeeming the time," of which some of us elderly
'ain't got much left'?:

"Redeeming the time, because the days are evil." (Ephesians 5:16 KJV)
+
"Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time."
(Colossians 4:5 KJV)

I can't imagine how discouraging this would be for Brand-Spanking-NEW babes in Christ, IF this is how they need to be told God's Method Of Approval Unto Him
(2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)

Since we already have Severe Disagreement And Division over the
homogenization of God's TWO Different Purposes for heaven And earth,
how exacerbated will that problem be for babies who find out that God's Word
Of Truth Cannot Be Found In ONE Book, but they can "grow up In The LORD,"
By:

Sorting out over 100 "copies of code," and choose the ONE that they "feel" the
Most comfortable with?

Not to mention UNbelievers "looking in" = "you people are nuts"?

Just sayin'... Am I misunderstanding something here? Got any examples of:

"copies of code" Correction of errors?

 

[Magenta]

Can you show us in scripture this claim? Thanks.

Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against
quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 2 Tim 2:14

If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ
and with godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy
interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions,
and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. 1 Tim 6:4

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels
about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Titus 3:9

 

[cv5]

So, IF someone points out 'error' in the (ONE) Book, I should then study the
other (?105+) copies of so-called 'code' to hopefully "find the Correction"?
What happens IF "the few discrete errors" Multiply into Many?

"Or could we say that either has mostly pristine signal but each with a few discrete errors. These errors can for the most part be detected by overlaying and checking with other copies of the code."

They don't. They are either corrected, eliminated, or flagged. The people in the manuscript copying business have been doing this forever. Even in the earliest times after Moses.

 

[cv5]

I like the New King James Version. And I have a couple of Bibles based on the Majority Text which I uses with a Bible app. If you're genuinely seeking the Lord it's hard to go wrong. He'll lead you in the direction that's right for you.

I just bought my wife a large text NKJV. It is easy for her to understand, being Filipino.
Not perfect.....but perfectly fine.

 

[hornetguy]

Viewing the KJV as the word of God is idol status?

Don't put words in my mouth.... viewing the KJV as the ONLY correct version of the Bible elevates it to idol status.
I believe the KJV is the word of God. I also believe the ASB, NASB, RSV, etc... are all the word of God. If I select one and say that all the others are garbage.... then I've begun to worship a book, not the God that the book is from.

Btw, God himself states that his word is to be exalted above his name.

Can you tell me where He tells us this? I truly don't remember reading that....

Btw, God never promised to preserve his words in every language.

Surely you know that God didn't promise to preserve His words only in English? Seriously?

 

[cv5]

The Scriptures are purposefully written as ordered code. With redundancy and robust anti-tampering features.
There is a signal being communicated and a certain amount of bandwidth. The embedded message can tolerate a certain amount of "noise" before it becomes unintelligible, uncertain and garbled.

We endeavor to achieve the highest signal-to-noise ratio as possible. Thus the prodigious efforts by scholars to produce the most accurate rendition. But signal loss is both anticipated and resolved more than satisfactorily by the Engineer who wrote the code to begin with......

The Jew's catechism is his calendar speaks to the codified nature of the appointed times, the holy days called HaMoyadim, all of which are MACROCODES, prophetic and intensely information dense.

This miraculous text we call the Bible declares over and over again that it is the one and only Word of God to mankind. A fact no one can or will be able to deny.

Sorry @hornetguy that was meant for @John146.
Fat fingered that one.......

 

[John146]

OK. I do believe the KJV is aces. A very fine rendition. But I make use of a LOT of other translations too when I am examining at a very high resolution. You almost have to in some situations.

Why use other translations? This makes you be the final authority of what a passage actually says? Why not leave it alone as it stands?

 

[Magenta]

Btw, God never promised to preserve his words in every language.

KJV is not written in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek .

 

[John146]

Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against
quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 2 Tim 2:14

If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ
and with godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy
interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions,
and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. 1 Tim 6:4

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels
about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Titus 3:9

Debating the truth of what God's word actually says is not a light thing. God takes his word very seriously and commanded us to live by every word of God. In order to obey that command, one needs every word from God. It's not the thought that counts.

God told Jeremiah to speak every word he gave him, diminish not a word. If Jeremiah would have changed the words to make them more understandable or suitable for the audience, he may have pleased his listeners, but God would not have been pleased. When God wants us to speak his word, He does not want a watered down version, but every word to be what he gave us.

Jeremiah 26:2 Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lord's house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

 

[cv5]

Why not leave it alone as it stands?

Here is why bro.....a typical example.

https://christianchat.com/threads/calvin-did-not-invent-the-doctrines-of-grace.209781/post-5032116

@TheDivineWatermark said:

--"sinS"--in the Section between Romans 1 to Romans 5:11--the [things] we commit [etc]... the [things] which can be and are "FORGIVEN" [etc]. Think: "sinned" Rom2:12 [2x], 3:23; "sinner" Romans 3:7; "iniquities" and "sins" Romans 4:7, etc etc;


--"Sin"--in the Section between Romans 5:12 to Romans 8-end--that which is NEVER "forgiven," only "CONDEMNED"...


In this post, my focus will be on the latter of these two (to show example):



Consider the following (in which I will place the SECOND Section... the one regarding "Sin" [often 'THE Sin']):

[note: this took a long time to type up... so I'm only placing the "definite article ['THE']" where it's used (in the Grk) with the word "SIN," not in EVERY use of the word "the" where it's found in the Grk in these verses, below... saving me a little work and time... I'm focusing on the *main point* of my post, here]


[Sin] -

1) Rom 5:12 - "THE Sin [2x]"

Wherefore, as by one man THE sin entered into the world, and death by THE sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/5-12.htm [note: I'm only linking a few of these verses]


2) Rom 5:13 -

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


3) Rom 5:20 - "THE Sin"

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where THE sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


4) Rom 5:21 - "THE Sin"

That as THE sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


5) Rom 6:1 - "THE Sin"

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in THE sin, that grace may abound?


6) Rom 6:2 - "THE Sin"

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to THE sin, live any longer therein?


7) Rom 6:6 - "THE Sin [2x]"

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of THE sin might be destroyed [rendered inoperative], that henceforth we should not serve THE sin.

- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/6-6.htm ["the body of THE sin" - not speaking of our bodies, here, as some suppose]


8) Rom 6:7 - "THE Sin"

For he that is dead is freed from THE sin.


9) Rom 6:10 - "THE Sin"

For in that he died, he died unto THE sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.


10) Rom 6:11 - "THE Sin"

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto THE sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


11) Rom 6:12 - "THE Sin"

Let not THE sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


12) Rom 6:13 - "THE Sin"

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto THE sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


13) Rom 6:14 -

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


14) Rom 6:15 -

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


15) Rom 6:16 -

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


16) Rom 6:17 - "THE Sin"

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of THE sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.


17) Rom 6:18 - "THE Sin"

Being then made free from THE sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


18) Rom 6:20 - "THE Sin"

For when ye were the servants of THE sin, ye were free from righteousness.


19) Rom 6:22 - "THE Sin"

But now being made free from THE sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


20) Rom 6:23 - "THE Sin"

For the wages of THE sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


21) Rom 7:7 - "THE Sin"

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known THE sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


22) Rom 7:8 - "THE Sin"

But THE sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


23) Rom 7:9 - "THE Sin"

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, THE sin revived, and I died.


24) Rom 7:11 - "THE Sin"

For THE sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


25) Rom 7:13 - "THE Sin [2x]"

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But THE sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that THE sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.


26) Rom 7:14 - "THE Sin"

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under THE sin.


27) Rom 7:17 - "THE Sin"

Now then it is no more I that do it, but THE sin that dwelleth in me.


-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/7/17/t_concif_1053017 [definite article]

-- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/7-17.htm [definite article]


28) Rom 7:20 - "THE Sin"

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but THE sin that dwelleth in me.

-- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/7-20.htm [definite article]


29) Rom 7:23 - "THE Sin"

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of THE sin which is in my members.

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/7/23/t_concif_1053023 [definite article]

-- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/7-23.htm [definite article]


30) Rom 7:25 -

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


31) Rom 8:2 - "THE Sin"

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of THE sin and death.


32) Rom 8:3 - "THE Sin"

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned THE sin in the flesh:


33) Rom 8:10 -

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.




[Then when Paul is done covering the Subject of "Sin"... after chpt 8, Paul then transitions (in chpts 9-11) to covering the Subject of [the understood question]: 'what of the promises made to Israel? [where are they? what happened to them?]'--Subject being, basically, 'nations' ("Israel [singular nation]" and "Gentiles [plural nations]"... only mentioning "sins" when speaking of Israel's "future" in 11:27 ["when I shall take away their sins"] which correlates with Isa27:9[,12-13]/Matt24:29-31 and Dan9:24, etc etc)]




Hope this helps you see a little better, my perspective (as to your question posed in a previous post). = )

 

[John146]

KJV is not written in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek .

God never promised to preserve his words in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek.

 

[Dino246]

Thanks for your opinion. We are in the search for truth. God's word never contradicts. When one translation contradicts another, they both cannot be the word of God. Surely you can understand this, yes?

Define "contradicts". If you mean "has different words" then you're wasting time by playing silly games. If you mean "has opposing meanings", then it's a matter for study, and not for assumption that a particular translation rendered the original-language words correctly.

 

[Magenta]

God never promised to preserve his words in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek.

Your point being? The promise was not made while the King's English was the language of choice.

 

[Dino246]

Does your reality state that God has not preserved his word, every word of truth, for us today? In one completed book?

My "reality" doesn't state anything; that's a fallacy of reification. As to your specific issue, my Bible doesn't state that... and neither does yours.