Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That would mean:

1) We don't become a new creation.
2) We will get eternal life, we don't "have" eternal life.
3) We aren't truly dead to the old man and alive to the new man.

The truth that we become a new creation, we die to ourselves and are reborn in Him, have passed from death into life, and now its not us who live, but Christ who lives doesn't match up with the idea that we are simply "looking for Jesus" for our salvation.

The moment we believe we ARE saved. Our faith overcomes the world. The only scenario in my mind that works and keeps Scripture in agreement is they were never saved to begin with.

How is what you listed (new creation, having eternal life, being dead/alive) following Christ?

 

[PS]

Believers can temporarily stumble, but that does not mean it's all over for them and they lost their salvation. I'm still looking for the specific words, "lost salvation" in the Bible, but cannot find them. Why are you so obsessed with this doctrine? Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I was beat over the head with the NOSAS doctrine and the Priest at the RCC where I attended really seemed to enjoy keeping it's members in fear and bondage to IN-security! I guess that misery loves company.

I have just done a quick search on fell away, fallen away, fall away, abandoned as in abandoned their faith, turned away.

This doesn't fit that criteria:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

Neither does this, but they are both concerning:
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4

Other verses that speak of the perils that beset us are:
Heb_6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Mar_4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luk_9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Heb_12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I care. You need to tell me what NOSAS is.

 

[garee]

How is what you listed (new creation, having eternal life, being dead/alive) following Christ?

I would suggest it is only them that could follow seeing no nan can come unless the father is drawing new creatures, or as many as the father has given to the Son

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I would suggest it is only them that could follow seeing no nan can come unless the father is drawing new creatures, or as many as the father has given to the Son

That is true, but it didn't answer the question.

 

[PS]

I would suggest they believe the scriptures which informs us He is not a man as us but an eternal Spirit like no other.

God who has no beginning (supernatural )cannot die.

I have had endless discussions on another forum with people who insist Jesus was only a man like Moses. I have shown them scriptures that speak of Christ's divinity, which they deny. Do you think they are saved if they accept a man into their lives?

The debate I had with them is similar to the debate I am having with you regarding OSAS. There seems to be a shallowness of understanding. For all I know OSAS could be a drink you find on the supermarket shelves.

 

[PS]

I would suggest they believe the scriptures which informs us He is not a man as us but an eternal Spirit like no other.

God who has no beginning (supernatural )cannot die.

And if they refuse to believe in the divinity of the Saviour, what then, will they be saved?

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Instead, I'd like to know why this subject is sooo important that people feel the need to debate it until they puke?

If a topic continues being debated is why nobody peruses the Holy Scripture enough to find out the truth.

 

[garee]

I have just done a quick search on fell away, fallen away, fall away, abandoned as in abandoned their faith, turned away.

This doesn't fit that criteria:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

Neither does this, but they are both concerning:
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4

Other verses that speak of the perils that beset us are:
Heb_6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Mar_4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luk_9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Heb_12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I care. You need to tell me what NOSAS is.

It would depend on how we define the word faith as a work or called a labor of love as to where it comes from and who it belongs to , The scripture defines natural man as having "no faith", not little, but none.

If a person defines faith as the imagination of one own heart then they simply would follow their conscience as if they were in the place God. But God is greater than our heart he knows all things and is able to discern what is on the inside as to intent. Man who is left with the imaginations of his own heart can only see what is on the outside .

We guard of new heats... they provide the well spring (gospel) of eternal life not seen

 

[preston39]

..... But like I said, there are so many simple Scriptures that teach we are eternally saved. So we need to let them speak and then Scriptures like these that appear to contradict need to be studied more carefully. ....

 

[preston39]

Timed out......

Many?...I haven't seen one ....yet.....for OSAS.......do you plan to post one?

(what you are taking out of context is;.....when G-d says we are ...saved....we are eternally saved. That does not happen until after physical death). That cannot be applied to our earthly existence when we repent and are baptized.

 

[notuptome]

Timed out......

Many?...I haven't seen one ....yet.....for OSAS.......do you plan to post one?

(what you are taking out of context is;.....when G-d says we are ...saved....we are eternally saved. That does not happen until after physical death). That cannot be applied to our earthly existence when we repent and are baptized.

If you are not saved now you will not be saved after death. The presence of the Holy Spirit is the seal and the evidence of our salvation right here and now.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

And if they refuse to believe in the divinity of the Saviour, what then, will they be saved?

Read John, chapter 8 Jesus is explaining Who He is, and says, "if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

 

[Magenta]

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13​

 

[Magenta]

 

[preston39]

If you are not saved now you will not be saved after death. The presence of the Holy Spirit is the seal and the evidence of our salvation right here and now.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

n...,

(obviously per scripture).

That is a ...spin....unrelated to the question.

 

[Magenta]

 

[PS]

Read John, chapter 8 Jesus is explaining Who He is, and says, "if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

These questions are to make people think, but nobody did. You knew.

 

[PS]

If a topic continues being debated is why nobody peruses the Holy Scripture enough to find out the truth.

All these topics have been debated since Christ. Hundreds of books have been written, besides which the answers are in the Bible, but for some reason, people who in the main haven't had the teaching, think they have all the answers. The result is that error is compounded with error.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Obedience cannot earn salvation, therefore God's criteria for choosing who to give grace to can be to those who obey Him, just like He can choose any other criteria of things that cannot earn the gift. He does not choose to give grace to those who will not obey Him, but only to those who will, and not just once, but on an ongoing basis.

I agree for the most part.

However, faith without the corresponding act of obedience is dead, or inactive, and will not produce the intended divine result.

JUst as a body, without the spirit is dead, or inactive.


This is the law or principle by which faith operates or functions.



JPT

 

[Ralph-]

Are you talking about Galatians 5:4?

No.

They were making themselves slaves under the law. And Paul explains in chapter 4 that slaves under the law are not heirs with the sons of the New Covenant.

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet?

It's clear that they had not fallen away so as to be beyond correction, yet. God had not turned them over to their unbelief. If he had there would be no letter to the Galatians written to be in our Bibles. Paul would have had nothing to do with them.

Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort.

Yes, they are trying to justify themselves. They are trying to earn God's pronouncement of righteous perfection. I thought we all understood this.

The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

Yes, still time to correct the error for these Galatians. The simple fact Paul is trying to do that shows us that. So, no argument here. Perhaps you can explain this to EG.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you?

Because they hadn't lost it yet. He is warning them that they will because slaves of the old covenant are not heirs along with the sons of the New Covenant. He explains this to them in the hope they will turn back to justification in Christ. Obviously, this indicates they still can come back and that God has not turned them over to their unbelief. Continuing in their sin would most certainly eventually result in them forfeiting their salvation and becoming the enemies of God (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them?

Missed this. No time to respond. Time out looming.....

In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Since you have been taught to basically ignore everything to the left of Matthew you don't know that he is not using hyperbole at all. Do you know why Paul would wish that these Pharisees who are teaching justification by works of the law would go the whole way and emasculate themselves? What does the law say happens to such a person that Paul would want that to happen to them?

It's very interesting that the RCC strongly opposes OSAS. hmm..

Ah, yes. The famous 'black and white' thinking of the church.

Stop thinking that since a group of people are lost that means absolutely nothing of what they say or believe is true. This is the very thing that makes dogmatic, closed-off Christians quite distasteful to the world.[/QUOTE]