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I hear you brother. If someone can't even answer simple questions, then you just end up wasting your time beating a dead horse. 
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Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
- Start date
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if they cant answer simple questions, especially basic questions all christians should be able to answer. they have ulterior motives.
By believing the Gospel message, which is to obey the Gospel.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17
I can explain further, if need be.
Thanks JPT
- But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17
I can explain further, if need be.
Thanks JPT
It’s the great debate. Who’s saved?
Are we indefinitely saved or conditionally saved?
Who is it exactly that will be granted a seat at the table?
Perhaps the biggest blunder is in assuming who God deems worthy.
Full stop.
When Jesus had his ministry on Earth He was ostracised and ultimately killed for who He called His own, for those He showed compassion too, who He seated at His table.
The religious did not agree and thought it was blasphemy how radical Jesus’ inclusion was.
Thiefs, criminals, prostitutes and the non religious included.
So I don’t think it matters OSAS, claim Jesus once then still sin and be saved or a more work based theology.....work out your sin to be saved. I think that language of salvation either way is flawed.
Perhaps it’s more telling who we would leave off the guest list than who we would deem worthy of an invite.
In my opinion those kinds of assumptions are way past our pay grade.....so to speak. I’ll leave that up to the Big Guy.
My Christianity isn’t about defining the terms and conditions of others.
Are we indefinitely saved or conditionally saved?
Who is it exactly that will be granted a seat at the table?
Perhaps the biggest blunder is in assuming who God deems worthy.
Full stop.
When Jesus had his ministry on Earth He was ostracised and ultimately killed for who He called His own, for those He showed compassion too, who He seated at His table.
The religious did not agree and thought it was blasphemy how radical Jesus’ inclusion was.
Thiefs, criminals, prostitutes and the non religious included.
So I don’t think it matters OSAS, claim Jesus once then still sin and be saved or a more work based theology.....work out your sin to be saved. I think that language of salvation either way is flawed.
Perhaps it’s more telling who we would leave off the guest list than who we would deem worthy of an invite.
In my opinion those kinds of assumptions are way past our pay grade.....so to speak. I’ll leave that up to the Big Guy.
My Christianity isn’t about defining the terms and conditions of others.
In Romans 10:16, we read: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We can clearly see that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16)
*Refusing to obey the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to believe the gospel.
The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
*Refusing to obey the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to believe the gospel.
The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
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Read what it says, because the context is clear, so you can and attempting to explain away what these passages so plainly say.
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world... 1 Corinthians 5:9-10
Paul makes it crystal clear, that he certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world.
Paul is plainly saying that sexually immoral people who are brothers. Don't associate with them.
Not only that, but brothers who are covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters...
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-12
If you want to keep twisting the scriptures to your own destruction then I will leave you to it, just as Peter warned -
JPT
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world... 1 Corinthians 5:9-10
- I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
- Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world...
Paul makes it crystal clear, that he certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world.
Paul is plainly saying that sexually immoral people who are brothers. Don't associate with them.
Not only that, but brothers who are covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters...
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-12
If you want to keep twisting the scriptures to your own destruction then I will leave you to it, just as Peter warned -
- as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
JPT
To believe means trust, commit and obey.
Unbelief is Disobedience and is the same Greek word.
The Gospel is: Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.
- and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15
- From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17
Repent means to turn to God.
If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.
The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.
This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.
This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.
It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.
The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.
JPT
Do you understand the principle of faith?
The obedience of faith?
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
- the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Do you understand the law of faith: How faith works?
JPT
You tried to "expalin away" what was said by twisting it.
Can you simply read what Paul plainly said -
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world... 1 Corinthians 5:9-10
- I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
- Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world...
Does Paul mean to not keep company with sexually immoral people of the world or that are brothers??
JLB
That's just it, your not harmoning scripture with scripture.
Your reading into scripture what your preconceived idea is, which is called eisegesis.
Eisegesis. ... While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesisoccurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
JPT
Please answer the question. You havent explained anything.
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world... 1 Corinthians 5:9-10
- I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
- Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world...
Does Paul mean to not keep company with sexually immoral people of the world or that are brothers??
First of all, I don't use the phrase "lose salvation".
Secondly. it's about a person departing from the faith, which is the substance of our salvation.
So let's review so foundational principles about faith: what faith means, and who faith functions, or operates.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
Those of us who have faith in Christ Jesus, have the hope of salvation, which we will receive at His coming.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28
We all must appear before the judgement seat of Christ, to be judged according to our deeds.
Which we will either receive eternal life, or eternal damnation.
Peter says it this way -
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
Notice the language of faith that Peter is using -
The end result of obtaining anything by faith, is receiving in reality the thing you hoped for through faith.
IOW, if you have something by faith, then by default, you have the hope of receiving that thing you do not yet see.
Paul says it this way - again look at the language of faith being used.
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25
Paul is saying if we have the thing we are hoping for, then we no longer hope for it, but have obtained it.
Paul says we are still hoping for the salvation we have by faith, in that we eagerly wait for it.
The object of discussion is salvation, as Paul says, we were (past tense) saved in this hope, which is a reference to salvation through faith.
I will stop there are wait for you to reply before going on to the law of faith, and how faith works, or operates.
JPT
Secondly. it's about a person departing from the faith, which is the substance of our salvation.
So let's review so foundational principles about faith: what faith means, and who faith functions, or operates.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
Those of us who have faith in Christ Jesus, have the hope of salvation, which we will receive at His coming.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28
- it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment
We all must appear before the judgement seat of Christ, to be judged according to our deeds.
Which we will either receive eternal life, or eternal damnation.
Peter says it this way -
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
Notice the language of faith that Peter is using -
- that the genuineness of your faith...
- whom having not seen you love.
- Though now you do not see Him, yet believing...
- receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
The end result of obtaining anything by faith, is receiving in reality the thing you hoped for through faith.
IOW, if you have something by faith, then by default, you have the hope of receiving that thing you do not yet see.
Paul says it this way - again look at the language of faith being used.
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25
- we were saved in this hope
- but hope that is seen is not hope - (faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen)
Paul is saying if we have the thing we are hoping for, then we no longer hope for it, but have obtained it.
- But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Paul says we are still hoping for the salvation we have by faith, in that we eagerly wait for it.
The object of discussion is salvation, as Paul says, we were (past tense) saved in this hope, which is a reference to salvation through faith.
I will stop there are wait for you to reply before going on to the law of faith, and how faith works, or operates.
JPT
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no matter how many times people falsely accuse children of God who have assurance in His promises of "wanting sin" it doesnt make it true
one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is
"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"
that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing
a saved born again believer is now a new creature
an adopted son/daughter of God
when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"
it registers as "failure"
and God chastens His own children
we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points
but when we do sin
it is a failure
not "what we want"
thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate
i know i have no power to save myself
but from your posts
you seem to think your own walk will save you
one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is
"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"
that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing
a saved born again believer is now a new creature
an adopted son/daughter of God
when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"
it registers as "failure"
and God chastens His own children
we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points
but when we do sin
it is a failure
not "what we want"
thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate
i know i have no power to save myself
but from your posts
you seem to think your own walk will save you
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That is not true. Some pretenders might believe this, but genuinely saved Christians understand that they have renounced the world, the flesh, and the devil. But no Christian is sinlessly perfect, and those who fall examine themselves, confess, and repent, so that they are not under the dominion of sin.
That is NOT the basis of salvation. You must obey the Gospel, and be born again in order to go to Heaven. Believers are justified by grace through faith, not by works of righteousness or obedience which they have done. And those who are justified are guaranteed to be glorified. See Romans 8.
That is NOT the basis of salvation. You must obey the Gospel, and be born again in order to go to Heaven. Believers are justified by grace through faith, not by works of righteousness or obedience which they have done. And those who are justified are guaranteed to be glorified. See Romans 8.
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