Not By Works
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I was referring to Matthew 16 where Jesus explains how He will build His church.
Wow!
I thought this might be a new thread on the old debate "salvation by grace or works"....
This thread goes back before Algore invented the internet, over 7,000 pages!
I thought this might be a new thread on the old debate "salvation by grace or works"....
This thread goes back before Algore invented the internet, over 7,000 pages!
Did you know I've been visiting this site since 2001?
Back then it was based on chat rooms mainly and forums not much.
I did not know that. It's only been recently that I learned about this forum.
I was afraid to ask if the original poster was still alive, but see now that he was banned.
Glad you are still going strong.
I got News for You:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us - not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with th
hope of eternal life.
2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 It is not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish-ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
Acts 13:48 (NRSV)
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers.
Romans 8:28-30 (ESV)
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.
Their is the TRUE GOSPEL OF SALVATION, not something you Conjured up in your mind.
A fine bevy of one line texts with little context. Faith does not merely mean believing stuff about Jesus. Even the demons believe. Several places in scripture we are told we will be judged according to our deeds. We are not saved by cheap mottoes from the Protestant Reformation. In scripture, salvation by "faith alone" means that apart from Christ's atoning work THERE IS NO SALVATION! Even the demons believe the correct things about Jesus. Not depending on works refers specifically to Torah observance. True faith in Christ's atoning work draws one into true relationship with Christ. And this leads to a changed life.
Well, you are right that apart from Christ's atoning work there is no salvation. But demons don't entrust their salvation their Christ, right?
Yes.. they would know that Jesus is God, that He lived a sinless life, died and rose again.. but they don't call out for Him from conviction on their spirit for eternal deliverance!
The other thing though.. I wouldn't go to the place of 'you are not saved' to a calvinist... because I know the majority of them believed in Jesus anyway at some point in their lives. But you and VCO seem to be going to that 'never saved' place to people that have believed in Jesus though being convicted He is God and calling for salvation from Him.
All I am talking about here is John 3:16 and Romans chapter 10:9-10.
(Sigh)
I think he said he is not into Witnessing, what we are to do AFTER WE ARE SAVED.
Matthew 28:18-20 (HCSB)
18 Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Yeltsin, the leader of the Soviet Union, died in 2007, but I am sure I saw him in the period after his death, and I met him in the tourist area of the capital of a certain ethnic autonomous region in the southernmost part of China. He suddenly appeared and kept looking at me and laughing. I thought how this person looked like Yeltsin at that time. I did not know that he had died at that time, and why would he come here if he was still alive?He appeared alone without bodyguards.
I'm sure what I saw was him, who looked exactly the same, but I wouldn't go up to him at that time and ask him if you were Yeltsin, because it was not my habit, because I had met Clinton before in Xi'an,when I was at middle school.
I'm sure what I saw was him, who looked exactly the same, but I wouldn't go up to him at that time and ask him if you were Yeltsin, because it was not my habit, because I had met Clinton before in Xi'an,when I was at middle school.
You think wrong (or assume much). Church Growth sets its goal to bring in numbers regardless of the means. It takes a corporate approach to the Church relying on man's devices rather than God's Word and Spirit.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2Pe 2:3)
Sounds like you don't know much about what goes on in a Church, and assume too much. My Wife and I moved a lot why we were younger, mostly small towns. We always sought out Evangelical Style of Churches, and NEVER ran across a single Church that fits what YOU JUST DESCRIBED.
We were involved in Community Churches, Bible Churches, Evangelical Free Churches, Independent Baptist Churches, Evangelical Lutheran Churches, and Fellowship Churches, most were Non-Denotational Churches that were BIBLE TEACHING CHURCHES, AND NONE FIT THE IMAGE YOU JUST PAINTED. So I am convinced you do not know what you are taking about.
I really miss her, but the Lord called her home seven years ago. She passed away do to a heart attack, and I still cry looking through her Photos.
Originally it was there is no such thing as earning your way to Heaven, we do not deserve it, but TOTALLY By HIS GRACE, He provided Salvation, as a Gift, and we love HIM BACK. We found out, we were REPEATED OUR ANSWERS, several years ago, over and over and over again. So DC allowed us to branch out into other subject, and it became sort of a Fellowship of OSAS Believers. We strive to encourage like minded Believers.
Sorry to hear the passing of your wife, but at least she’s in a better place.
Here are some articles…
https://missionalmarketing.com/?utm...SpadRy3mEZj_iiaLja7ztJYEZYrnWdRgaAnxkEALw_wcB
https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/legal-and-political-magazines/church-growth-movement
wiki also has articles on it.
Our Salvation was a done deal, from the moment HE PLANNED IT, before time began. In fact HE wrote our Names in the Lamb's book of Life, from the foundation of the Earth.
What is the purpose of WORKS then? It is NOT to get SAVED, or enhance our Chances, or EVEN to maintain our SALVATION. WORKS are purely a way to SHOW our LOVE for GOD Himself, solely because HE first LOVED US. Any other MOTIVE, only produces FILTHY RAGS, and you do not want to know what kind of FILTHY RAGS HE is talking.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
This happens after the RAPTURE.
Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him (Antichrist), everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
There was, over time, a number of new believers who found much comfort and renewed faith
in knowing their salvation was more secure than they had at first thought, and in discovering
the Scriptures that engendered the peace in our Lord they had been missing, and seeking, were
very grateful to have those things laid out so plainly for them, and grateful too, for those of us
who remained day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, to make plain
such things, fighting the good fight through countering those who chose to sow fear and doubt.
And yes, there has been much good fellowship here too!
