Not By Works

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jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,441
May 19, 2020
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#145,441
preacher4truth said:
You're the only person, as far as I can tell, who is talking about Calvin, and almost incessantly. You've been doing this for several days, I'm pretty certain I know why. ;)

I've provided a biblical case after the above post, and she was spot on, is growing in her faith, and in grace and knowledge; 2 Peter 3:18.

You didn't use Scripture in context or in its proper meaning in your above. The verse you faintly allude to (1 Timothy 2:4) is speaking of men of all distinctions, not every single man who has ever lived. That, and it isn't being used by you in line with 2 Timothy 2:15. If God desired all men to be saved, every single one, then they'd be saved, every single one.

You don't understand the doctrine of irresistible grace which is why you make erroneous conclusions. It doesn't teach what you conclude it to teach.

Then you end with a bit of demeaning language towards my person, some ad hominem which unfortunately is the norm from what I see on here? Not sure why, but you need to leave that out of the discussion.

For the record God is my teacher, is never wrong, and has never failed. :)
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Can you explain the doctrine of irresistible grace?

When I received the Holy Spirit....I could not resist his purity.Love....it wasn’t dirty as a member on here told me.

It was pure and natural...a receiving of the Holy Spirit into my heart.....unbelievable!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#145,442
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#145,442
@Oncefallen is this what you warned us about last night...and this is why we respond with heat

Fastfredy0 said:
Well, except for DCpnstipated they are not that bad. They IMO are ignorant to truth to a much great extent than us, but what are you to expect. God gives gifts in varying degrees. I didn't see any personal attacks and that is all I ask. They attack ideas at times in a less than acedemic way, but we are not conversing with higher acedemia here afterall. Their logic is faulty so they can't see the contradictions, but that is to be expected. They have a herd of follows to say they are correct and give their intellect enough acrediation to remain confident in their beliefs. They are stuck in a idea of God that loves everyone and therefore he must do this or that according to that misunderstanding. Confronted with the fact the God is holy and can't love evil beings they hide. Told God hates evildoers they change the definition of the word. LOL ... I have heard FAITH, WORK, HATE all redefined. (giggles to himself). I don't blame them for ganging up, their theology is weak but there is strength in numbers.
..... They understand the simpler things like we are not saved by works, but can't extrapolate from that. I don't see why you are surprised. They do love God, I give them that .. love him greatly even. They, for the most part, lack training in logic and definitely in acceptable formal debate. They often can't answer direct questions and this media makes it even more difficult to do so.
.... Keep in mind most of them have been Christians for a long time and most training in modern Christian theology and as history shows time and time again, Christians dogma gets distorted more and more and once in a while gets corrected (Example: reformation).
.... So, I am here to throw pearls to hmmm, the less educated and misdirected ... an exercise to see if I can answer questions or find questions I can't answer and to fill in time with an unusual form of entertainment.

.... I guess you have to ask yourself why you are here and if this place satisfies that need. You are unlikely to change minds as these people are too set in their ways (as are we).

Oh well, done venting ... I was going to post this on regular board, but why upset "the gang". Thought I would send you this moral support. I should proof read, but too lazy. For what it is worth, I respect your opinion so you have 1 fan. :love:

New subject. My pet peeve against Calvinism (not a biggy, but here goes)
I really don't the aspect of Calvinism when I go for a walk and am about to say "God loves you" and then say to myself, "Well, I can't lie as I don't know God loves my grand daughter". That stinks. Hey, I know it right, but I wish I could be like 'most on the forum' and say with confidence that "God loves you". This is not a biggy ... God is perfect ... OK, done venting against REFORM theology ... lol.

Don't take these jokers seriously ... I do think they love God .... always a chance we are wrong.
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P

Pulie

Active member
#145,443
May 26, 2020
216
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#145,443
Fastfredy0 said:
The verses say WHAT YOU MUST DO, NOT WHY. WHY DID YOU BELIEVE!


There is no verse. God causes one to believe. If you believe God chose to cause it. Since God is spirit His work is often invisible so we assume we are the cause. We do believe but we are not the cause, we are the effect. I honk a horn, the horn makes a noise. Is the horn the caused of the noise, in a sense yes...but the horn would never have made a sound without the primary cause,me. I am the cause of the horn mechanism moving which is the effect, the horn mechanism moving is the cause of the sound, the effect. The horn has no choice, it will always respond to me, the initial cause.

Granted,this is subtle, but the horn does no independent work.. I am the only independent part in the analogy. I determine all things.
I am the one doing the believing, God is the cause, there is no other cause for me to believe. I cannot do it on my own as NO ONE SEEKS GOD because of my evil nature. Similarly, the horn cannot honk on its own as that is against its nature.

Thus, though faith is a work, the work is not attributed to me; rather to God. Thus I cannot boast.
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Yes the verse does not tell us why we believed but that does not mean we should do away with Romans 10:9.
Please mention one verse that tells us why we believe and also share one testimony in this thread that does not give honor and glory to God.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,445
May 19, 2020
3,050
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#145,445
eternally-gratefull said:
What brought you to faith.
Click to expand...


Jesus....crying out to Jesus.....was Jesus loved...by a few...many hated Jesus and crucified him....what right did I have to Love?

That is when I received the Holy Spirit into my heart......he was irresistible...not in a dirty way.....the most purest way imaginable....he testified to my spirit on entering who he was,I knew instantly.

I don’t mind if people think I’m batty....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,446
#145,446
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, except for DCpnstipated they are not that bad. They IMO are ignorant to truth to a much great extent than us, but what are you to expect. God gives gifts in varying degrees. I didn't see any personal attacks and that is all I ask. They attack ideas at times in a less than acedemic way, but we are not conversing with higher acedemia here afterall. Their logic is faulty so they can't see the contradictions, but that is to be expected. They have a herd of follows to say they are correct and give their intellect enough acrediation to remain confident in their beliefs. They are stuck in a idea of God that loves everyone and therefore he must do this or that according to that misunderstanding. Confronted with the fact the God is holy and can't love evil beings they hide. Told God hates evildoers they change the definition of the word. LOL ... I have heard FAITH, WORK, HATE all redefined. (giggles to himself). I don't blame them for ganging up, their theology is weak but there is strength in numbers.
..... They understand the simpler things like we are not saved by works, but can't extrapolate from that. I don't see why you are surprised. They do love God, I give them that .. love him greatly even. They, for the most part, lack training in logic and definitely in acceptable formal debate. They often can't answer direct questions and this media makes it even more difficult to do so.
.... Keep in mind most of them have been Christians for a long time and most training in modern Christian theology and as history shows time and time again, Christians dogma gets distorted more and more and once in a while gets corrected (Example: reformation).
.... So, I am here to throw pearls to hmmm, the less educated and misdirected ... an exercise to see if I can answer questions or find questions I can't answer and to fill in time with an unusual form of entertainment.

.... I guess you have to ask yourself why you are here and if this place satisfies that need. You are unlikely to change minds as these people are too set in their ways (as are we).

Oh well, done venting ... I was going to post this on regular board, but why upset "the gang". Thought I would send you this moral support. I should proof read, but too lazy. For what it is worth, I respect your opinion so you have 1 fan. :love:

New subject. My pet peeve against Calvinism (not a biggy, but here goes)
I really don't the aspect of Calvinism when I go for a walk and am about to say "God loves you" and then say to myself, "Well, I can't lie as I don't know God loves my grand daughter". That stinks. Hey, I know it right, but I wish I could be like 'most on the forum' and say with confidence that "God loves you". This is not a biggy ... God is perfect ... OK, done venting against REFORM theology ... lol.

Don't take these jokers seriously ... I do think they love God .... always a chance we are wrong.
Click to expand...
my friend, this was totally uncalled for,

it’s sad that you do not understand what you just did anymore than the one your defending did.

when you do things like this, things that are useless personal attacks which could go either way, (every one of the things I bolted could be said about you and your groupies or as you called it (gang) the conversation and debate about our views on predestination the resistibility of grace and Whether we are regenerated first or justified first is thrown out the door. because you have made a character attack against other members,

i hope you think about what you said, and see the damage you just caused to your reputation, which in my view just took a hit (not that you care I am sure)

it’s sad I have to delet this post three or four times, this was not a nice thing to wake up to,
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,448
May 19, 2020
3,050
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#145,448
eternally-gratefull said:
my friend, this was totally uncalled for,

it’s sad that you do not understand what you just did anymore than the one your defending did.

when you do things like this, things that are useless personal attacks which could go either way, (every one of the things I bolted could be said about you and your groupies or as you called it (gang) the conversation and debate about our views on predestination the resistibility of grace and Whether we are regenerated first or justified first is thrown out the door. because you have made a character attack against other members,

i hope you think about what you said, and see the damage you just caused to your reputation, which in my view just took a hit (not that you care I am sure)

it’s sad I have to delet this post three or four times, this was not a nice thing to wake up to,
Click to expand...



Bro...instead of calling him up on it..let his post stand.....I have learnt to do that on a non believer site....their posts are there for all to see......

Aren’t we called to love them no matter what.....words should not penetrate our hearts...personal ones that is.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,449
#145,449
jackrosie said:
Am I correct in saying..this is relation to the two people who were drowning?

At death door?.....would they even have thought about faith in that state of drowning?
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It’s not what we think of.

its Hard to understand the person who refused the rescuers help because he did not think his situation was dire, and he could still be his own rescuer (in essence his own God):eek:r that be believed the rescuer but did not trust him, so he wanted in pride to help (faith plus works) they rescuer did not force himself on them and allowed them to do what they wanted,

when he died, the rescuer could not be blamed, it was the persons fault, he had no excuse
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,450
#145,450
jackrosie said:
Bro...instead of calling him up on it..let his post stand.....I have learnt to do that on a non believer site....their posts are there for all to see......

Aren’t we called to love them no matter what.....words should not penetrate our hearts...personal ones that is.
Click to expand...
We are trying to get a thread back to where we are discussing and not attacking

my post was a verbal warning to someone I consider my brother said in love,

I want them to think about what he said, and see how others review his post,
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,451
May 19, 2020
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#145,451
eternally-gratefull said:
It’s not what we think of.

its Hard to understand the person who refused the rescuers help because he did not think his situation was dire, and he could still be his own rescuer (in essence his own God):eek:r that be believed the rescuer but did not trust him, so he wanted in pride to help (faith plus works) they rescuer did not force himself on them and allowed them to do what they wanted,

when he died, the rescuer could not be blamed, it was the persons fault, he had no excuse
Click to expand...

Got ya!....I understand.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#145,452
May 19, 2020
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#145,452
eternally-gratefull said:
We are trying to get a thread back to where we are discussing and not attacking

my post was a verbal warning to someone I consider my brother said in love,

I want them to think about what he said, and see how others review his post,
Click to expand...


Pointing the finger is what I see .....anyway..I will leave you to it......just my observation...on who has got to have the “last word”.........not just you...others as well.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145,456
#145,456
Titus 3:5 NOT by WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but BY HIS MERCY he SAVED US by the washing (justifying or to be made right) and renewal (regeneration or new birth) of the Holy Spirit
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#145,460
#145,460
Fastfredy0 said:
They have a herd of follows to say they are correct and give their intellect enough acrediation to remain confident in their beliefs.
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God did not give us a system, a schema, a systematic theology.... He gave us Revelation of Himself.

A Revelation where He gets involved in the messy, complicated affairs of fallen men and brings redemption.

I find it interesting you disparage the intellect of non Calvinists.... I would suggest you read the writings of Augustine of Hippo and you will see that Calvin drew much of his understanding from those writings. And then research who influenced Augustine's thinking.

Calvinism's "regeneration precedes faith" comes from Augustine.
As well we also read.......

"That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He predestinated to everlasting life, as the most merciful bestower of grace; whilst to those whom He has predestinated to eternal death, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment." - "The City of God" On the Soul and its Origin
 
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