Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

God did not say...

Man "A" gets to be saved
and
Man "B" is going to burn

God did say......All who come to me in faith will be received! <-this is the part that Calvinists take and embellish to the man "A" and "B" scenario above.....and it is false!

GOD would have ALL MEN BE SAVED and come to the knowledge of the truth.

IF GOD chooses....ALL MEN would be saved and NONE die lost!

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

preacher4truth said:

No...it is the truth according to Calvin and those that push his dogma

My bible says GOD would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If grace, according to your teacher, is irrisistible and the above verse true, your god failed and your teacher is wrong!

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen....by simple deduction and reasoning one can biblically refute these Calvinists.....even one verse alone refutes their false notions

God would have ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

They peddle that grace is irresistible.....If that is the case and GOD WOULD HAVE ALL MEN be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, then ALL MEN WOULD BE SAVED.

They are false, their teacher was false and what they attempt to peddle is false.

End of story!

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Another verse that slams this notion that grace is irrisistible and God chooses man A to be saved and man B for hell....

preacher4truth · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

You're the only person, as far as I can tell, who is talking about Calvin, and almost incessantly. You've been doing this for several days, I'm pretty certain I know why.

I've provided a biblical case after the above post, and she was spot on, is growing in her faith, and in grace and knowledge; 2 Peter 3:18.

You didn't use Scripture in context or in its proper meaning in your above. The verse you faintly allude to (1 Timothy 2:4) is speaking of men of all distinctions, not every single man who has ever lived. That, and it isn't being used by you in line with 2 Timothy 2:15. If God desired all men to be saved, every single one, then they'd be saved, every single one.

You don't understand the doctrine of irresistible grace which is why you make erroneous conclusions. It doesn't teach what you conclude it to teach.

Then you end with a bit of demeaning language towards my person, some ad hominem which unfortunately is the norm from what I see on here? Not sure why, but you need to leave that out of the discussion.

For the record God is my teacher, is never wrong, and has never failed.

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

The problem with Calvinism and some in this site embracing it and peddling it is the extreme erroneous position that it peddles.....the balance is clear by scripture

a. God would have ALL men be saved, come to repentance and come to the knowledge of the truth.

b. If grace is irresistible and faith gifted then ALL MEN should be saved by the above verse.

c. FAITH is gifted, grace IS resistible and many (most) will burn, why? Men love darkness.

so....how do we balance all of this..

Many are called, few are chosen (elected) <--why NOT ALL ARE CALLED

This verse alone hammers calvinism...if grace is irresistible then the MANY CALLED WOULD BE CHOSEN and not just a FEW of the many.

We view this from a finite mind, while being oblivious to the truth that GOD knows and sees all...HE determined before he cast down the world that ALL who come to him in faith will be received....He is under no obligation to call anyone that will not believe, even though he does...MANY CALLED, BUT FEW CHOSEN

Many is not all
Few is not All of many
Many is not All

This in NO WAY shape or form indicates that God chooses man "A" for heaven and man "B" for hell.

preacher4truth · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Not even one verse is contextually understood above or applied correctly. The misunderstanding and misusage of Matthew 22:14 is a bit troubling. It actually affirms election and so-called "Calvinism" when understood in the context of Matthew 22:1-14. Partially quoting a few verses haphazardly, out of context, and melding them together as some sort of proof proves nothing, and is definitely mishandling the word of God. Note 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 4:1ff to see how Paul speaks of this very thing. Also 2 Timothy 2:15.

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

Fastfredy0 said:

The view above is so contrary to the truth and honestly reeks of scriptural ignorance....you really do not know what you are talking about

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

made us alive with Christ even we being dead in trespasses--by grace you are saved--

And walk in love, just as Christ also loved us and gave Himself up for us as an offering and a sacrifice to God, into an aroma of a sweet smell.

In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

So god should let everyone be born perfect? If we were all born perfect what would we need God for

Your looking at the human condition. I am looking spiritually from how we will see god in the future

As far as god living Jacob and hating Esau that is a quote from
Micah. It speaks of two nations not two children. And in Hebrew the context is also Not literal hate but love less
Is It not gods Command that we live and honor our children spouse and parents. But god also said if we do Not hate them we can have no pet with him. Did he mean literal hate? Did he contradict himself?

Malachi

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

1ofthem said:

Here is where I don't understand Calvinism: Why would God give faith or grace to one sinner and not another? Is there some sort of qualities that he chooses to save someone for? If not, then how would anyone be able to have faith that they were actually saved if they have no idea how God chooses people whom he will save and not save? In other words, if it is not free to anyone who will believe and accept the free gift of God when convicted and drawn, then how could anyone know for sure or have faith that they were saved or even had a chance to be saved?

God would have ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

This single verse refutes Calvin and his cohorts!

preacher4truth · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Yet again taking scripture out of context. If God willed all men (every single person ever) to be saved, he would save them, (every single person ever.)

EleventhHour · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Absolutely ...... Amen!!

It would be like stating first God loved Adam and then switched over hating Adam after he sinned and was no longer clean but had fallen.

Yet God did not stop loving Adam and Eve after they sinned.... He provided a covering for them.

preacher4truth · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Yay, end of story!!!!!! Wait, nevermind, he keeps rereading the story over and over. Always has the same ending too, fairy tales, error, false conclusions, ad hominem, but never gets to "The End."

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

I got a red x by P4T on the above post..

a. I quoted 4 verses
b. I said Calvinism is false

He red x'ed it.....so either he red x'ed the verses or proves he is a Calvinist.

1ofthem · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Agreed. I cannot understand the Calvinist or Reformed or whatever it is called view. Due to this verse and many others.

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

EleventhHour said:

My bible clearly states....GOD is LOVE

I cannot find one verse that states...God is hate!!!

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

1ofthem said:

Many others being the key words in your post....Just like Jehovah's Witnesses.....or Mormons.....they have their "KEY PHRASES" or twist of scriptures....Calvinism is easily refuted......this verse is another one...

Many are called, few chosen.

They say grace is irresistible....yet MANY in the above verse, after being IRREVOCABLY CALLED are rejected...

Hmmmmm I thought GRACE is irresistible.......Obviously not!

Laish · Jul 3, 2020

dcontroversal said:

How does it come about that only some believe and others not hearing the same Gospel ?
It it in the hearing if so it means the one that’s saved had something in him that made him better.
So he earned it or was just made better what is it ?
Perhaps it was the one sharing the Gospel that lacked something in the presentation. Now it’s his fault the guy goes to hell?
Blessings
Bill

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

Duskey said:

The bible even states this and you got a thumbs down.....that right there proves this person is not interested in truth, but rather, like a Pharisee of old, refuses correction and or in pride refuses to admit error.

God is not partial and or a respector of persons!

dcontroversal · Jul 3, 2020

preacher4truth said:

That's not in Romans 1. It's in Romans 2:11 and the context is about how all will be judged. It is about those who do good to be accepted by God (which is proven an impossibility in chapter 3) or those who do evil (that's the entire world.)

Paul proves that none can do good to be accepted by God in Romans 3, that all are under condemnation, all have sinned, 3:23 and under this condemnation there is no distinction; 3:22 -- all are in the same boat, the whole world is guilty before God; 3:19.

You're in the wrong chapter and out of context. It doesn't refute the fact that God elects whom he wills, grants faith to whom he wills according to his purpose, counsel and will, and passes over others, not extending them mercy, Romans 9:16-20. Thherefore the verse you've alluded to you've misused and misapplied, and had the wrong chapter altogether.

And that isn't favoritism, it isn't showing partiality, it's called grace, of which God is entitled to grant to whomsoever he wills, or it isn't grace at all since he grants it based on nothing good in them, it is all according to his will to do so. 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

@Rosemaryx you're growing in your faith, it is exciting to see. Your post is on target, concise, Biblical.

@Rosemaryx do not fall for being "smoozed" His view is incorrect!

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