Not By Works
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Sure we do. we credit the change to a "different person" to God not adding to it by being a worker.
(2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new)
The old creature counted on his own works.
(Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith)
How hard is it to understand that your belief is the foundation of your good works. It is the beginning and the end of your good works. James isn't encouraging that you must hustle and bustle to fill the "good works" bucket for the day. He's simply saying it's impossible to have good works without faith, and impossible not to have good works with true saving faith. They are one.
How can they be good works unless God deems them so (I speak of physical actions that complete a feat) for the perception of the world is imperfect from the start. Our good works flow from our belief in the truth, and the truth is that if you are a child of God you are redeemed from the judgement to come upon all of mankind, and you will spend eternity in eternal bliss in the presence of the lord. Your good works are not a planned event or accomplishment, but your belief in the truth. They are a constant, First believe the truth, and the truth will make you free. Free of worrying about death, and give you a straight smooth path to love the lord for his saving grace in your life. What if I were paralyzed and couldn't speak? Am I then damned because I cant complete menial physical tasks in the name of the lord? Please answer me this if you reply. Your FAITH seasoned with LOVE is your constant good works.
How can they be good works unless God deems them so (I speak of physical actions that complete a feat) for the perception of the world is imperfect from the start. Our good works flow from our belief in the truth, and the truth is that if you are a child of God you are redeemed from the judgement to come upon all of mankind, and you will spend eternity in eternal bliss in the presence of the lord. Your good works are not a planned event or accomplishment, but your belief in the truth. They are a constant, First believe the truth, and the truth will make you free. Free of worrying about death, and give you a straight smooth path to love the lord for his saving grace in your life. What if I were paralyzed and couldn't speak? Am I then damned because I cant complete menial physical tasks in the name of the lord? Please answer me this if you reply. Your FAITH seasoned with LOVE is your constant good works.
An excellent example is when Peter said he would not allow christ to be killed. Now you would think that is a good work (someone standing up in defence in another) but christ called him satan even because it did not align with Gods will. Want to do good works? Spread the gospel and tell your testimony. Glorify god.
VCO, how do you view the passage from
1 Corinthians 3:9-15? What does Paul mean in verses 11-15? Thank you.
Thank you for ask, but I already suspect you Know or Assume you Know what it means.
1 Corinthians 3:9-15 (HCSB)
9 For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
10 According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
13 each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
14 If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.
I verse 9, the GOD's coworkers are BORN AGAIN Christians, and GOD IS AS WORK IN THE BORN AGAIN Believes LIFE.
In verse 10 and 11 according to GOD's GRACE, He will use us for what HE intended us to be, and that foundation must be IN JESUS CHRIST. AND HE WILL GIFT US FOR THE Ministry HE WANTS US IN. We the LORD PUT IT ON MY HEART to move WEST from Near to California, and I could not shake that feeling that HE wanted me in California. I had the feeling at least 10 months prior to moving.
I was so Blessed with TRUST IN THE LORD, that I KNEW HE WOULD GIVE ME THE ABILITY to do what I could not. AND THAT TRUST NEVER LEFT ME. By the time I found out what HE WANTED ME TO DO IN California, I was already their for two years. HE wanted me to Start a Prison Ministry and HE WOULD DO IT THRU ME. You see I had NO BIBLE COLLEGE AT ALL, and HE Chose me to start a Prison Ministry in a brand New PRISON, and it was the highest Level of Security in any Prison in California. AND I HAD ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE that HE WOULD GIFT ME TO DO WHAT I COULD NOT. YES, HE DID, that very thing QUITE effectively, it was not me, but CHRIST IN ME DID IT ALL. I came to the conclusion, the MORE I TRUSTED HIM, the more HE COULD Empower me to do what I could Not Do.
So once THE LORD Puts it on your heart, what HE wants you to do, don't say "I can't do that." In stead go into your prayer closet, and say, "LORD you are going to have to help me with this one, and I WILL TRUST YOU." You will have a Blessed time as HE DOES IT THRU YOU.
In verse 12-13 HE is talking about rewards for a job well done, out of AGAPE LOVE. GOLD, SILVER, COSTLY STONES, are Rewards for what you did for the LORD and the brethren OUT OF PURE AGAPE LOVE. Deeds for the WRONG MOTIVE, (such as looking good for your friends), it is on Wood, Hay, and Straw, and will be BURNED UP.
Matthew 7:22 (HCSB)
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
Matthew 7:23 (HCSB)
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
The BIGGEST mistake that they made in the above scriptures, IS THEY TRIED TO SERVE THE LORD OUT OF THEIR OWN STRENGTH, and TOOK THE CREDIT and Glory, instead of giving it all TO HIM. That is exactly like the WORKS Righteousness bunch we have seen around here.
In verses 14 and 15, that is how the Motive for our Deeds will be tested to see if any are worthy reward, when HE comes. Like I said, ONLY DEEDS DONE OUT OF A SINCE AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM AND THE BRETHREN, is worthy of ANY REWARD, and SALVATION IS NEVER A REWARDS, BECAUSE IT IS A FREE GIFT. So the IMPERISHABLE Laurel Wreath CROWN presented to the winners, of the with original Olympic Games, is the rewards we will be presented, for the MOTIVE of sincere LOVE, when HE COMES. The only PURE MOTIVE there is.
Here is a Parallel VERSE:
1 Corinthians 9:23-27 (HCSB)
23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.
24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize.
25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away.
26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air.
27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
They do it for a crown that fades away.
We do it for a Crown that will NEVER fade away.
REMEMBER, THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE IS SINCERE AGAPE LOVE.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
OSAS is the gospel.
Grace is not compulsion.
As for the rest of your non biblical argument that works prove salvation otherwise the person is not saved......
Good works can characterize non-Christians
Matthew 7:21-23
Good works are hard to define
Works can be unseen
While good works can be evidence for one's faith in Christ, they are not sufficient to prove or disprove it. Only faith in God's promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ guarantees and proves our salvation.
NOSAS is messed up, it does not even take Jesus at His word but rather supplants it with doubt, misery, anxiety and untruth.
End of Story.
.
This is the gospel:
"38“Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses." - Acts 13:38-39
We are saved by receiving God's forgiveness in Christ, not by believing we can never lose that forgiveness. That's a 16th century over-thought add-on to the gospel message.
"14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died." - 2 Corinthians 5:14
"10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10
Christians are characterized for their love for the body of Christ:
" 1 ...everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God..." - 1 John 5:1-2
"..things that have to do with salvation. 10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them." - Hebrews 6:9-10
Ephesians 4:1 to 6:9
Colossians 3:3-25
Romans 12:9-21 to 15:3
1 Thessalonians 4:3-12
James 1:19,27, 2:1-13
1 Peter 2:11-22, 3:1-12
Matthew 5:21-48 to 7:5
"10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10
As far as faith proving our salvation, it is the faith that can be seen in what you do that proves your salvation.
Confessions of faith prove nothing.
Even fake believers have a profession of faith.
Believers, by virtue of the definition of faith, do not have misery and anxiety about their salvation.
Believing in Christ is the most secure place a person can be in in all the universe.
That's why we should keep believing.
Osas is NOT the gospel.
This is the gospel:
"38“Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses." - Acts 13:38-39
We are saved by receiving God's forgiveness in Christ, not by believing we can never lose that forgiveness. That's a 16th century over-thought add-on to the gospel message.
That's not what Paul said:
"14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died." - 2 Corinthians 5:14
Explain to me what is un-Biblical about this:
"10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10
Non-Christians do not love the children of God.
Christians are characterized for their love for the body of Christ:
" 1 ...everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God..." - 1 John 5:1-2
"..things that have to do with salvation. 10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them." - Hebrews 6:9-10
Because these passages defining the good works of the Christians are so lengthy I will just post the references:
Ephesians 4:1 to 6:9
Colossians 3:3-25
Romans 12:9-21 to 15:3
1 Thessalonians 4:3-12
James 1:19,27, 2:1-13
1 Peter 2:11-22, 3:1-12
Matthew 5:21-48 to 7:5
"25 ...good deeds are obvious, and even those that are not obvious cannot remain hidden forever." - 1 Timothy 5:25
What exactly is it that you do not agree with in this passage?
"10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10
Yes, faith in the Promise is what guarantees salvation.
As far as faith proving our salvation, it is the faith that can be seen in what you do that proves your salvation.
Confessions of faith prove nothing.
Even fake believers have a profession of faith.
Only people in unbelief have misery, and anxiety.
Believers, by virtue of the definition of faith, do not have misery and anxiety about their salvation.
Believing in Christ is the most secure place a person can be in in all the universe.
That's why we should keep believing.
Actually that is not true.
Many believers do suffer with misery and anxiety concerning their salvation.
It seems you think that is not the case.
Why so?
My thoughts on this is that they believe as a result of being told they must work harder and stop sinning. So we have this mentality of "3 strikes and you are out"
I could go a bit deeper but I won't here.
Then we need to consider the man who came to Jesus and said "I believe but help me in my unbelief"
If I am correct I get from you that you believe that salvation is only lost when a person ends up rejecting Jesus because of unbelief for the forgiveness of sins and reconciliation to the Father aka Justification.
But we need to bear in mind that actually believers fear God will reject them because of xyz.
So actually your statement above concerning misery and anxiety is not correct.
Trust me, been there and was written of by many as a non beliver because of my struggles. Yet they had no compulsion to seek me out to find out why.
For 30 years I struggled with a gambling addiction. I hated it. Cried out to God evey day. I even got to the stage of asking God to kill me so I would know where I was going.
Contemplated suicide, failed twice.
25 years of waking up at the middle of the night with fear and guilt.
My wife had to pray over me when having nightmares, at times I was trying to call out but couldn't. I was thrashing and contorted but no words.
So for me and others that I now walk with I disagree with your statement.
Thank God he dealt with the cause of the effect. It took 30 years.
But I never lost my faith in Jesus. I was waiting for the sky to fall on my head and go to hell.
Now he has healed me (still struggle a little bit with the 3 strikes and your out)
There is a difference between people like me and people who don't give a damn.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Yeah, you rely on yourself to maintain here... deny if you will, but that is not trusting in the Saviour
Sounds like bearing the cross (Matthew 10:38).
We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us, but life in you. (2 Corinthians 4:8-11).
Paul says that death works in the apostles, but life in the other believers.
Sorry about your struggles, I pray you keep moving forward!
This is not true. Being a believer in Christ does not make you exempt from experiencing anxiety or having an anxiety disorder.
There are anxiety disorder such as OCD, PTSD, Agoraphobia, Social Anxiety Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder and others.
I believe God can use struggles for good.
Amen.
God promises to work good in all things to conform us to the image of Jesus.
When he does that then he can use us to help others.
Thanks.
And the point is "Looking to move forward, wanting to be like Jesus"
Surely that is what God wants.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Never made this statement.
One act of belief/faith/trust in Christ Jesus for salvation is sufficient to save eternally.
It is a gift received in its totality, it is irrevocable, that is what Scripture states very clearly.
Any gift that can be taken away is not a gift but a loan.
Again what you push is contrary to Christ.
Believers do not have misery and anxiety about their salvation.
I've had my own "besetting sin" (Hebrews 12:1), but I did not have misery and anxiety about my salvation in my struggle with sin. Faith in Christ keeps even the most down and out Christian among us safe in their salvation. As long as you keep believing in Christ in your struggle with sin you remain saved no matter how bad the battle with sin is.
You said my continuing to believe was me not trusting in the Savior:
Continuing to trust in Christ's sacrifice for salvation is in fact the very definition of trusting in the Savior.
You can be a believer in Jesus and question and have anxiety about salvation. I know the feeling of anxiety about salvation very well personally.