Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

The fruit of legalism ... not good, in more ways than one.

 

[Judges1318]

Colossians 4:6, 1 Timothy 5:1, Psalm 19:14,
1 Corinthians 13:4-8, Colossians 3:17

How do all of these mean I can not call out those who sin against me and others in this forum?

Why is it wrong for me to post the scriptures that show these mean people here in this forum need to stop gloating in their so-called knowledge and need to grow up to righteous behavior?

 

[Judges1318]

It's not a game and postings (time and date of each post) are listed in everyone's profile. Not hard to figure out.

I know that.
The point is you are judging my participation in this thread.
For one, you know nothing about me, and you have no idea why I was not posting for the amount of time that you have made a point of knowing. And you took the opportunity of my absence to make smug, condescending remarks. You are not mature. You have knowledge, not a spiritual relationship with God. You are not as mature and wise as you think you are. Your so-called osas knowledge deceives you into thinking you are.

 

[Judges1318]

Your anger and bitterness is becoming more and more obvious. You sound like you are having a meltdown.

You probably don't know what evil thing you are doing.
By your own admission you were provoking me to react through your backbiting.
Now that you think you are getting the reaction that you were looking for you are now going to condemn me for it.
This is classical narcissistic behavior.
It's emotional abuse.
You are not mature.
You do not know as you ought.

This is the knowledge and intimacy of God that you, along with most in the church, lack:

"10 Love does no harm to its neighbor." - Romans 13:10

Are you going to argue with me about this scripture?
Show me you belong to God and can, therefore, hear what I'm saying.
Those who belong to God can hear what I'm saying.
I'm only saying what the Bible says.

 

[mailmandan]

And you took the opportunity of my absence to make smug, condescending remarks.

Was only joking around. Whenever we were previously trying to figure out if you were Ralph and you would not give us an answer, I mentioned the avatar name, “Dennis the Menace” and you simply laughed about it. I mention that name again, but this time you are having a meltdown. Just take a deep breath and calm down. Your angry rants by which you harshly judge myself and others is not helping your case.

 

[John146]

Oh, that's right.
If you disagree with osas you are a troll.

You show that you are still a baby in Christ. You need to grow up and stop sucking on the baby milk knowledge of the gospel and start eating the meat of the word and grow up to righteous living:

"13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." - Hebrews 5:13-14

You are not acquainted with the teaching about righteous living in a distinguishing of good from evil. You show that by how you behave. You need to grow up and start eating the meat of the word. Every Christian has this responsibility so don't try to turn it back on me and make me the one in the wrong for saying it.

Your osas doctrine is hardly the meat of the word. But so many of you people think it's the supreme knowledge of the wise and mature and educated. Not even remotely true.

If you’re going to finally post Scripture, at least get it right.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[John146]

You probably don't know what evil thing you are doing.
By your own admission you were provoking me to react through your backbiting.
Now that you think you are getting the reaction that you were looking for you are now going to condemn me for it.
This is classical narcissistic behavior.
It's emotional abuse.
You are not mature.
You do not know as you ought.

This is the knowledge and intimacy of God that you, along with most in the church, lack:

"10 Love does no harm to its neighbor." - Romans 13:10

Are you going to argue with me about this scripture?
Show me you belong to God and can, therefore, hear what I'm saying.
Those who belong to God can hear what I'm saying.
I'm only saying what the Bible says.

Again, 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Lightskin]

I'm calling you people out.
You do not act in accordance with the Spirit.
You have knowledge, not an intimate relationship with Christ.
You show that by how you act here.
Now, how is me showing you your fault me being immature?
Use scripture please.

Sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ is in fact acting in accordance with the Spirit.

Now about that plank in your eye…

 

[mailmandan]

You probably don't know what evil thing you are doing.
By your own admission you were provoking me to react through your backbiting.
Now that you think you are getting the reaction that you were looking for you are now going to condemn me for it.
This is classical narcissistic behavior.
It's emotional abuse.
You are not mature.

I don’t see it that way at all and believe you are overreacting. Maybe after you calm down from your angry, bitter rants we can further our discussion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well guess it’s time for me to leave this room

good luck all.

 

[Judges1318]

You consistently paint believers in the OSAS camp with a broad brush of either being babes in Christ or not believers at all.

Because I consistently see most osas believers acting immaturely and gloating in their perceived superiority of knowledge and not feeding on the meat of the word about righteous living and treatment of others and looking down their noses on those who don't agree with them about osas.

Have you ever met a OSAS believer that you considered to be grown up and knowledgeable and wise by your standards?

Of course, you mean by the Bible standards I've been posting.
But, um.......I can't remember one off hand.
I'd have to try real hard to remember if I ever have met one.
Surely, there is at least one.

The problem is most osas'ers think their osas knowledge means they are wise and understanding and mature. That's not even remotely true. They do not know as they ought to know. Like the Galatians, they might be known by God, but they have yet to know him. The perceived superiority of their knowledge deceives them into thinking they know him.

You seem to believe that ONLY those in the NOSAS camp are capable of being grown up and knowledgeable and wise.

No, I'm sure there is a mature osas'er somewhere.
Maybe @Nehemiah6 is one.
I think he's osas. And he is very firm in his convictions, but I don't recall him ever ridiculing me or others for our resistance to that doctrine.

From my experience, many people in the NOSAS camp are quick to judge OSAS believers as promoting a license to sin and seem to view themselves as "holier than thou."

Yes, I know, talking about righteous behavior is almost always perceived as being holier than thou by those who, well, don't live righteously.
That is where the church is at right now.
And I blame the leaven of osas for bringing the church to this terrible place.
As long as people are taught that the correctness and superiority of their doctrinal knowledge, particularly osas doctrine, is what shows you to be wise and mature and 'ok' with God this condition will only get worse.

 

[EleventhHour]

Well guess it’s time for me to leave this room

good luck all.

Well I think you need to come back ... you gave this post by @Judges1318 a like

#130 312

You aren't very wise to how the devil works.
By your own admission you were provoking me to react.
You did the devil's work. You are immature.
But your so-called superior knowledge of osas makes you think you are mature

 

[CherieR]

How do all of these mean I can not call out those who sin against me and others in this forum?

Why is it wrong for me to post the scriptures that show these mean people here in this forum need to stop gloating in their so-called knowledge and need to grow up to righteous behavior?

If you feel offended about what someone has said you, it really is all about how you express that.

From what I have read, there is a reccomendation of using more I statements than you statements.

Examples I was offended when, I felt upset/bothered (etc) when

Verses You did/said, You made me feel...

I statements tend to be kinder and take more responsiblity whereas you statements tend to appear to cast more blame.

Then there's more like tone of voice, body language( if in person).

On message boards tone of voice may at times be harder to gauge but it still can come through.

 

[Judges1318]

Also, 'ALL' false religions and cults (who teach salvation by works) strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me!

I'm surprised that you would call the church immediately following the Apostles cultists and false religionist.
They firmly resisted the Gnostic based teaching that you could not lose your salvation.
No church father believed it.
It wasn't until Luther and Calvin came along and seized the opportunity afforded by the Protestant revolt from the control of the Catholic Church that osas was accepted into the church.

I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for years listened to Catholic priests constantly attack OSAS and make fun of Protestants and accuse them of lacking in knowledge, yet these Catholic priests were clueless to the fact they were promoting a false gospel of works salvation. So pardon me if I don't seriously consider any form of rebuke from someone in the NOSAS camp.

You're being immature.
You haven't learned that you don't instantly reject everything someone says just because they don't have everything right, or are hypocrites.
The Catholics aren't completely wrong about everything just because they aren't right about everything and are generally characterized as being hypocrites.
Mature people know this.

If I was NOSAS then you would most likely consider me to be a real brother.

...Only as long as you didn't abuse me, and took responsibility for your behavior when called out on it.
But like I said, I give you the benefit of the doubt and perceive you to have made a decision to follow Christ but have yet to have a spiritual 'knowing' relationship with him.

It amazes me to see over the years on various Christian forums how people in the NOSAS camp are quick to join hands and sing 'kumbaya' together in unity over NOSAS, even if certain members in the group that they are holding hands with attend a false religion or cult and teach a false gospel.

No, what you are seeing is we don't act like the osas crowd and tear down and denigrate those with whom we don't completely agree with. So far, I have only have the bad experience of this hateful, arrogant superiority of knowledge in church with osas people.

Either we are born of BOTH water AND Spirit or else we are not. Believers do not merely have one or the other. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Good grief, dan, don't you read the Bible!
There is flesh giving birth to flesh, and there is Spirit giving birth to Spirit (Galatians 4:29, John 3:6).
Most in the church only have the birth by the flesh.
We know this by how they behave.
Those who only have an outward repentance toward God hate and persecute those who have that and the spiritual birth.

I used to consider you to be more patient and sincere, but now your angry, bitter true colors are really showing and it's disturbing! What happened to you?

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

I'm being careful to not sin in my anger.
You provoked me, and now I'm calling you out on it.

Remember, it's slow to anger, dan. I have been very patient with this mob in this thread.
Now it's time to grow the babies up to maturity according to the meat of the Word.

Bad people most of the time? Hate and murder over doctrines? You are over the top!

It's like you don't even know the Bible!
I see this over and over and over again in your camp.

"2You desire but do not have, so you kill." - James 4:2

"15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." - 1 John 3:15

Not so over the top as you thought it was.
See, you have lots of knowledge about osas and how to make the Bible defend it. But you have no Biblical knowledge about what really matters. And it's because you think osas is the supreme knowledge of God and what makes you wise and mature and understanding. That's not even remotely true. Osas'ers are deceived. All you see is osas in the Bible at the expense of what really matters in the Bible.

Apparently to you the Christian life seems to be all about NOSAS and attacking people in the OSAS camp. Losing salvation is mainly all you talk about.

Actually, this is my favorite subject:

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. " - Galatians 5:6

"what counts is the new creation." - Galatians 6:15

I attack osas because it is so antithetical to this supreme message of the Christian faith. So many think believing in osas is the epitome of what it means to believe in and live for God. They think what counts is faith expressing itself in a dogmatic doctrine of osas. That's not even remotely true. The person who believes that is deceived. They do not know as they ought to know. They do not know that being a Christian is all about how you act, not about the careful construct of doctrinal beliefs as if that's what constitutes the mature and grown up follower of Christ.

 

[John146]

I blame the corrupt versions in which you

It's like you don't even know the Bible!
I see this over and over and over again in your camp.

"2You desire but do not have, so you kill." - James 4:2

"15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." - 1 John 3:15

2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[John146]

Actually, this is my favorite subject:

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. " - Galatians 5:6

"what counts is the new creation." - Galatians 6:15

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

 

[Kolistus]

Oh, that's right.
If you disagree with osas you are a troll.

You show that you are still a baby in Christ. You need to grow up and stop sucking on the baby milk knowledge of the gospel and start eating the meat of the word and grow up to righteous living:

"13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." - Hebrews 5:13-14

You are not acquainted with the teaching about righteous living in a distinguishing of good from evil. You show that by how you behave. You need to grow up and start eating the meat of the word. Every Christian has this responsibility so don't try to turn it back on me and make me the one in the wrong for saying it.

Your osas doctrine is hardly the meat of the word. But so many of you people think it's the supreme knowledge of the wise and mature and educated. Not even remotely true.

Of all the people who have gotten saved and have just picked up a Bible and read it, they always come out the other side. OSAS is esoteric teaching that needs special knowledge from someone to grasp it to get rid of all the 'depart from the faith' 'leave the faith' 'fall away' verses by re-interpreting them in a way that you leave the store without even being in the store to begin with. Its so simple but this is what happens when we take the assurance of salvation passages written to those who are in the faith and following Jesus and apply them to those who are NOT following Jesus. (John 10:27-28 comes to mind for this and all the other eternal life passages)

This is part of the last days apostasy as we know, reformation doctrine started off okay in the 1500s but now it has mutated to the antinomian version it is today.

 

[Judges1318]

Where does that leave most NOSAS people? It doesn't concern you in the least that ALL false religions and cults promote NOSAS?

You're engaging in an unfair tactic of debate the name of which escapes me at the moment.
It goes along the lines of 'the criminal drove a blue car, therefore, everyone who drives a blue car is a criminal'.
I think you know what I'm talking about.

You seem to only consider those in the NOSAS camp as most likely being real brothers and sisters in Christ and EVERYONE in the OSAS camp in your eyes as being either babes in Christ or not saved at all.

Generally speaking, non osas people really are the one's who have more knowledge of what really matters in the Christian faith than osas beievers have.
We may disagree among ourselves about how we bring that knowledge to completion and fruition in one's life, but at least we know what really matters.
Osas believers don't seem to know at all.
They are deceived into thinking superior knowledge of sundry doctrines, particularly whether or not you can lose your salvation, is what really matters.
They think that shows they know God.
But they do not know as they ought to know (1 Corinthians 8:1-2).
It actually shows they are still babies in Christ. If in Christ at all.
But as I say, I give most of you the benefit of the doubt and accept you as immature believers.
And I don't blame you entirely for being so immature.
I blame the leadership of the church.

We are either born of water AND the Spirit or else we are not. It's not just one or the other.

Not according to Jesus.
He was setting Nicodemus straight on the matter.
He had John's baptism of repentance down pat.
What he lacked was the Spirit part.
And so it is today.
Lot's of 'decisions' to follow Christ.
Few of which lead to a spiritual 'knowing' of Christ.
We know this by the immature behavior of so many in the church.

You talk about pride and arrogance characterizing OSAS believers, yet just listen to yourself!

Yes, the immature always accuse those ahead of them on the maturity curve of being proud and arrogant and self righteous. I get it. But I will never apologize for knowing and living something by God's grace that someone else doesn't know about and live. The immature and unsaved not living in righteousness are the one's doing the hating and murdering of the more mature who are:

"12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous."

15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."

1 John 3:12,15

 

[Judges1318]

Of all the people who have gotten saved and have just picked up a Bible and read it, they always come out the other side. OSAS is esoteric teaching that needs special knowledge from someone to grasp it to get rid of all the 'depart from the faith' 'leave the faith' 'fall away' verses by re-interpreting them in a way that you leave the store without even being in the store to begin with. Its so simple but this is what happens when we take the assurance of salvation passages written to those who are in the faith and following Jesus and apply them to those who are NOT following Jesus. (John 10:27-28 comes to mind for this and all the other eternal life passages)

This is part of the last days apostasy as we know, reformation doctrine started off okay in the 1500s but now it has mutated to the antinomian version it is today.

I'm impressed. You sound just like Ralph.
You aren't Ralph under another name are you?

 

[Judges1318]

OSAS is esoteric teaching that needs special knowledge from someone to grasp it to get rid of all the 'depart from the faith' 'leave the faith' 'fall away' verses by re-interpreting them in a way that you leave the store without even being in the store to begin with.

This is the exact thing that changed my mind about osas.
I was called out for making the Bible not really mean what it says.
I was convicted in my heart for doing that and so now I don't do that anymore.

This 'special' knowledge that supposedly enables you to see and accept osas in the Bible is exactly the pride and arrogance of knowledge most osas'ers major in. And it makes them stodgy, dogmatic, difficult, unloving people. They love each other, and approve of each others sayings, but show a disdain and contempt for those who don't agree with them. They don't even know that's the sign they do not know God as they ought. I'm speaking generally here, of course.