Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I know that.
The point is you are judging my participation in this thread.
For one, you know nothing about me, and you have no idea why I was not posting for the amount of time that you have made a point of knowing. And you took the opportunity of my absence to make smug, condescending remarks. You are not mature. You have knowledge, not a spiritual relationship with God. You are not as mature and wise as you think you are. Your so-called osas knowledge deceives you into thinking you are.
The point is you are judging my participation in this thread.
For one, you know nothing about me, and you have no idea why I was not posting for the amount of time that you have made a point of knowing. And you took the opportunity of my absence to make smug, condescending remarks. You are not mature. You have knowledge, not a spiritual relationship with God. You are not as mature and wise as you think you are. Your so-called osas knowledge deceives you into thinking you are.
-
1
- Show all
Your anger and bitterness is becoming more and more obvious. You sound like you are having a meltdown. 
By your own admission you were provoking me to react through your backbiting.
Now that you think you are getting the reaction that you were looking for you are now going to condemn me for it.
This is classical narcissistic behavior.
It's emotional abuse.
You are not mature.
You do not know as you ought.
This is the knowledge and intimacy of God that you, along with most in the church, lack:
"10 Love does no harm to its neighbor." - Romans 13:10
Are you going to argue with me about this scripture?
Show me you belong to God and can, therefore, hear what I'm saying.
Those who belong to God can hear what I'm saying.
I'm only saying what the Bible says.
Was only joking around. Whenever we were previously trying to figure out if you were Ralph and you would not give us an answer, I mentioned the avatar name, “Dennis the Menace” and you simply laughed about it. I mention that name again, but this time you are having a meltdown. Just take a deep breath and calm down. Your angry rants by which you harshly judge myself and others is not helping your case.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
If you’re going to finally post Scripture, at least get it right.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-
2
- Show all
Because I consistently see most osas believers acting immaturely and gloating in their perceived superiority of knowledge and not feeding on the meat of the word about righteous living and treatment of others and looking down their noses on those who don't agree with them about osas.
Of course, you mean by the Bible standards I've been posting.
But, um.......I can't remember one off hand.
I'd have to try real hard to remember if I ever have met one.
Surely, there is at least one.
The problem is most osas'ers think their osas knowledge means they are wise and understanding and mature. That's not even remotely true. They do not know as they ought to know. Like the Galatians, they might be known by God, but they have yet to know him. The perceived superiority of their knowledge deceives them into thinking they know him.
No, I'm sure there is a mature osas'er somewhere.
Maybe @Nehemiah6 is one.
I think he's osas. And he is very firm in his convictions, but I don't recall him ever ridiculing me or others for our resistance to that doctrine.
Yes, I know, talking about righteous behavior is almost always perceived as being holier than thou by those who, well, don't live righteously.
That is where the church is at right now.
And I blame the leaven of osas for bringing the church to this terrible place.
As long as people are taught that the correctness and superiority of their doctrinal knowledge, particularly osas doctrine, is what shows you to be wise and mature and 'ok' with God this condition will only get worse.
Of course, you mean by the Bible standards I've been posting.
But, um.......I can't remember one off hand.
I'd have to try real hard to remember if I ever have met one.
Surely, there is at least one.
The problem is most osas'ers think their osas knowledge means they are wise and understanding and mature. That's not even remotely true. They do not know as they ought to know. Like the Galatians, they might be known by God, but they have yet to know him. The perceived superiority of their knowledge deceives them into thinking they know him.
No, I'm sure there is a mature osas'er somewhere.
Maybe @Nehemiah6 is one.
I think he's osas. And he is very firm in his convictions, but I don't recall him ever ridiculing me or others for our resistance to that doctrine.
Yes, I know, talking about righteous behavior is almost always perceived as being holier than thou by those who, well, don't live righteously.
That is where the church is at right now.
And I blame the leaven of osas for bringing the church to this terrible place.
As long as people are taught that the correctness and superiority of their doctrinal knowledge, particularly osas doctrine, is what shows you to be wise and mature and 'ok' with God this condition will only get worse.
E
If you feel offended about what someone has said you, it really is all about how you express that.
From what I have read, there is a reccomendation of using more I statements than you statements.
Examples I was offended when, I felt upset/bothered (etc) when
Verses You did/said, You made me feel...
I statements tend to be kinder and take more responsiblity whereas you statements tend to appear to cast more blame.
Then there's more like tone of voice, body language( if in person).
On message boards tone of voice may at times be harder to gauge but it still can come through.
From what I have read, there is a reccomendation of using more I statements than you statements.
Examples I was offended when, I felt upset/bothered (etc) when
Verses You did/said, You made me feel...
I statements tend to be kinder and take more responsiblity whereas you statements tend to appear to cast more blame.
Then there's more like tone of voice, body language( if in person).
On message boards tone of voice may at times be harder to gauge but it still can come through.
-
1
- Show all
I'm surprised that you would call the church immediately following the Apostles cultists and false religionist.
They firmly resisted the Gnostic based teaching that you could not lose your salvation.
No church father believed it.
It wasn't until Luther and Calvin came along and seized the opportunity afforded by the Protestant revolt from the control of the Catholic Church that osas was accepted into the church.
You're being immature.
You haven't learned that you don't instantly reject everything someone says just because they don't have everything right, or are hypocrites.
The Catholics aren't completely wrong about everything just because they aren't right about everything and are generally characterized as being hypocrites.
Mature people know this.
...Only as long as you didn't abuse me, and took responsibility for your behavior when called out on it.
But like I said, I give you the benefit of the doubt and perceive you to have made a decision to follow Christ but have yet to have a spiritual 'knowing' relationship with him.
No, what you are seeing is we don't act like the osas crowd and tear down and denigrate those with whom we don't completely agree with. So far, I have only have the bad experience of this hateful, arrogant superiority of knowledge in church with osas people.
Good grief, dan, don't you read the Bible!
There is flesh giving birth to flesh, and there is Spirit giving birth to Spirit (Galatians 4:29, John 3:6).
Most in the church only have the birth by the flesh.
We know this by how they behave.
Those who only have an outward repentance toward God hate and persecute those who have that and the spiritual birth.
I'm being careful to not sin in my anger.
You provoked me, and now I'm calling you out on it.
Remember, it's slow to anger, dan. I have been very patient with this mob in this thread.
Now it's time to grow the babies up to maturity according to the meat of the Word.
It's like you don't even know the Bible!
I see this over and over and over again in your camp.
"2You desire but do not have, so you kill." - James 4:2
"15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." - 1 John 3:15
Not so over the top as you thought it was.
See, you have lots of knowledge about osas and how to make the Bible defend it. But you have no Biblical knowledge about what really matters. And it's because you think osas is the supreme knowledge of God and what makes you wise and mature and understanding. That's not even remotely true. Osas'ers are deceived. All you see is osas in the Bible at the expense of what really matters in the Bible.
Apparently to you the Christian life seems to be all about NOSAS and attacking people in the OSAS camp. Losing salvation is mainly all you talk about.
Actually, this is my favorite subject:
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. " - Galatians 5:6
"what counts is the new creation." - Galatians 6:15
I attack osas because it is so antithetical to this supreme message of the Christian faith. So many think believing in osas is the epitome of what it means to believe in and live for God. They think what counts is faith expressing itself in a dogmatic doctrine of osas. That's not even remotely true. The person who believes that is deceived. They do not know as they ought to know. They do not know that being a Christian is all about how you act, not about the careful construct of doctrinal beliefs as if that's what constitutes the mature and grown up follower of Christ.
They firmly resisted the Gnostic based teaching that you could not lose your salvation.
No church father believed it.
It wasn't until Luther and Calvin came along and seized the opportunity afforded by the Protestant revolt from the control of the Catholic Church that osas was accepted into the church.
You're being immature.
You haven't learned that you don't instantly reject everything someone says just because they don't have everything right, or are hypocrites.
The Catholics aren't completely wrong about everything just because they aren't right about everything and are generally characterized as being hypocrites.
Mature people know this.
...Only as long as you didn't abuse me, and took responsibility for your behavior when called out on it.
But like I said, I give you the benefit of the doubt and perceive you to have made a decision to follow Christ but have yet to have a spiritual 'knowing' relationship with him.
No, what you are seeing is we don't act like the osas crowd and tear down and denigrate those with whom we don't completely agree with. So far, I have only have the bad experience of this hateful, arrogant superiority of knowledge in church with osas people.
Good grief, dan, don't you read the Bible!
There is flesh giving birth to flesh, and there is Spirit giving birth to Spirit (Galatians 4:29, John 3:6).
Most in the church only have the birth by the flesh.
We know this by how they behave.
Those who only have an outward repentance toward God hate and persecute those who have that and the spiritual birth.
I used to consider you to be more patient and sincere, but now your angry, bitter true colors are really showing and it's disturbing! What happened to you?
You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
You provoked me, and now I'm calling you out on it.
Remember, it's slow to anger, dan. I have been very patient with this mob in this thread.
Now it's time to grow the babies up to maturity according to the meat of the Word.
It's like you don't even know the Bible!
I see this over and over and over again in your camp.
"2You desire but do not have, so you kill." - James 4:2
"15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." - 1 John 3:15
Not so over the top as you thought it was.
See, you have lots of knowledge about osas and how to make the Bible defend it. But you have no Biblical knowledge about what really matters. And it's because you think osas is the supreme knowledge of God and what makes you wise and mature and understanding. That's not even remotely true. Osas'ers are deceived. All you see is osas in the Bible at the expense of what really matters in the Bible.
Apparently to you the Christian life seems to be all about NOSAS and attacking people in the OSAS camp. Losing salvation is mainly all you talk about.
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. " - Galatians 5:6
"what counts is the new creation." - Galatians 6:15
I attack osas because it is so antithetical to this supreme message of the Christian faith. So many think believing in osas is the epitome of what it means to believe in and live for God. They think what counts is faith expressing itself in a dogmatic doctrine of osas. That's not even remotely true. The person who believes that is deceived. They do not know as they ought to know. They do not know that being a Christian is all about how you act, not about the careful construct of doctrinal beliefs as if that's what constitutes the mature and grown up follower of Christ.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Of all the people who have gotten saved and have just picked up a Bible and read it, they always come out the other side. OSAS is esoteric teaching that needs special knowledge from someone to grasp it to get rid of all the 'depart from the faith' 'leave the faith' 'fall away' verses by re-interpreting them in a way that you leave the store without even being in the store to begin with. Its so simple but this is what happens when we take the assurance of salvation passages written to those who are in the faith and following Jesus and apply them to those who are NOT following Jesus. (John 10:27-28 comes to mind for this and all the other eternal life passages)
This is part of the last days apostasy as we know, reformation doctrine started off okay in the 1500s but now it has mutated to the antinomian version it is today.
This is part of the last days apostasy as we know, reformation doctrine started off okay in the 1500s but now it has mutated to the antinomian version it is today.
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Where does that leave most NOSAS people? It doesn't concern you in the least that ALL false religions and cults promote NOSAS?
It goes along the lines of 'the criminal drove a blue car, therefore, everyone who drives a blue car is a criminal'.
I think you know what I'm talking about.
Generally speaking, non osas people really are the one's who have more knowledge of what really matters in the Christian faith than osas beievers have.
We may disagree among ourselves about how we bring that knowledge to completion and fruition in one's life, but at least we know what really matters.
Osas believers don't seem to know at all.
They are deceived into thinking superior knowledge of sundry doctrines, particularly whether or not you can lose your salvation, is what really matters.
They think that shows they know God.
But they do not know as they ought to know (1 Corinthians 8:1-2).
It actually shows they are still babies in Christ. If in Christ at all.
But as I say, I give most of you the benefit of the doubt and accept you as immature believers.
And I don't blame you entirely for being so immature.
I blame the leadership of the church.
Not according to Jesus.
He was setting Nicodemus straight on the matter.
He had John's baptism of repentance down pat.
What he lacked was the Spirit part.
And so it is today.
Lot's of 'decisions' to follow Christ.
Few of which lead to a spiritual 'knowing' of Christ.
We know this by the immature behavior of so many in the church.
You talk about pride and arrogance characterizing OSAS believers, yet just listen to yourself!
"12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous."
15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."
1 John 3:12,15
-
1
- Show all
This is the exact thing that changed my mind about osas.
I was called out for making the Bible not really mean what it says.
I was convicted in my heart for doing that and so now I don't do that anymore.
This 'special' knowledge that supposedly enables you to see and accept osas in the Bible is exactly the pride and arrogance of knowledge most osas'ers major in. And it makes them stodgy, dogmatic, difficult, unloving people. They love each other, and approve of each others sayings, but show a disdain and contempt for those who don't agree with them. They don't even know that's the sign they do not know God as they ought. I'm speaking generally here, of course.
I was called out for making the Bible not really mean what it says.
I was convicted in my heart for doing that and so now I don't do that anymore.
This 'special' knowledge that supposedly enables you to see and accept osas in the Bible is exactly the pride and arrogance of knowledge most osas'ers major in. And it makes them stodgy, dogmatic, difficult, unloving people. They love each other, and approve of each others sayings, but show a disdain and contempt for those who don't agree with them. They don't even know that's the sign they do not know God as they ought. I'm speaking generally here, of course.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all