Not By Works

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Judges1318 said:
I'm not taking sides here when I say this, but I want to say to you that if you continue in Christ and don't fall away the day will come when you find that you can just walk away from unresolvable conflicts like this because the peace of God in you is more valuable than being right. Because most of the time you can't have both.
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Christ continues and is faithful.....you never want to acknowledge or face this simple truth do you?
 
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Judges1318 said:
I'm not taking sides here when I say this, but I want to say to you that if you continue in Christ and don't fall away the day will come when you find that you can just walk away from unresolvable conflicts like this because the peace of God in you is more valuable than being right. Because most of the time you can't have both.
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Well despite your suggestion that it is possible I won't continue in Christ, I agree sometimes its better to be wronged and overlook an offense, than to just try to yell at someone in denial....

I could have most definitely handled the situation better... but believe it or not I love the person who was accusing me and really wanted them to stop the common trend of doing it every time I quote them...



But when you say "if you continue in Christ and don't fall away the day will come when you find that you can just walk away from unresolvable conflicts"

This is weak.

He here and now and even as a sappling has lead me to do these things.


Until the day this flesh is gone I am capable of being less than perfect, I was fighting for truth and also for a brother to stop lying about my intentions.

I did it in a less than perfect way because of my flesh.


I can never stop being in Christ because He is in me, and there is no time limit before He can lead me to do as I ought to.

(which I did the LAST time p4t falsely accused me)

preacher4truth said:
It takes a whopping 10-20 minutes per day to read the Bible through in 1 year. Only 4 chapters per day.

If a person got off forums in which they spend hour upon hour day after day and exchanged some of that for this small amount of time they'd accomplish this easy feat. This isn't even considering that believers should also read and study other Biblical works and studies. It also tells us most do not have family devotions with Scripture reading for the sake of their families and selves. A person at church was shocked that we do this and also teach our daughter theology, it's thought of as too difficult, legalistic or in some other ungodly fashion. But for the record that's our duty, note Ephesians 6:4.

Doing this is only deemed difficult or nearly impossible because of electronic device addictions and habits which do damage to attention spans, and frankly also to laziness. If it takes a person 3 years or more to read through, they're only in it about 3-4 minutes a day on average yet hours are spent on electronic devices.

It's not really that difficult, it has to do with proper prorities and the dirty word "discipline." Note 2 Timothy 1:7, 1 Timothy 4:6ff and Psalm 119.
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OneOfHis said:
My first go through took between 20-25 months I believe, sometimes reading for over 10 hours a day...

I didn't understand things so clearly at first brother and could spend hours rereading the same chapter... I wanted answers and not to belittle how important what I had in front of me was. (some of us may have had less bias or stumbling blocks and can surely learn much faster than I was.... I am not calling you wrong I just know first hand that it can take a long time even if you're spending more time every single day while you're awake reading the bible than any other thing in your life...)
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preacher4truth said:
If a person reads 4 chapters a day, they'll have read through the Bible in a year. That won't take very much time for an average reader, or even a below average reader.




Hmmm. 4 chapters can be read in around 20 minutes per day, give or take. Do that daily and you've read the entire Bible in a year plus.

Not sure how many chapters a day you read reading "10 plus hours at a time," but at that rate it wouldn't take nearly 2 years to get through it. There must be more to your method than what appears above.

By the way, R. C, Sproul read his Bible through after conversion in 2 weeks. Of course he spent hours a day doing it, but he was driven to do so. Needless to say that is a long ways short of 2 years.

Lastly, no, and with all due respect you haven't stated I'm wrong, yet you are in fact suggesting I am.

This all seems aimed at asserting reading through the Bible is a difficult and nearly impossible without extensive and laborious effort.

So basically there appears to be disagreement that reading 4 chapters per day, which would take around 20 minutes per day won't get it done.

Well, here is some math:

There are 929 chapters in the Bible.

There are 365 days in a year.

A person reads 4 chapters per day.

365 X 4 = 1460 chapters read if 4 chapters are read daily.

That's more than once through Scripture in a small amount of devoted time, daily.
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OneOfHis said:
Your math is accurate.... spot on bro.

For the record you know me in case you have forgotten I am nonamemcgee.


What I am suggesting is for slow learners or people looking for something specific.. they may read matthew over a dozen times before they ever get to luke.....

I started from page one, but after exodus I may reread half of genesis then continue for awhile then reread many chapters before I continue....

I would also skip chapters at times to get to the NT before Id go back....


If you think I was suggesting you were wrong anywhere... you're wrong now😉


I think you made a great point in how realistic it is to read the bible and how we should have no excuse as if it is overwhelming.

I wanted to make a point to not rush yourself to "finish" so fast when our goal is to learn.


Love you brother.
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preacher4truth said:
Hey bro good to see you. I think you're still a little off track here though. 3-4 chapters a day isn't fast by any stretch. Now, reading to fully understand very slowly isn't exactly a read through the Bible plan, that's more of a study.

Yes my point is to show it's easily doable and too many of us are just plain lazy. ;)
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OneOfHis said:
I agree 3 - 4 a day isn't fast, Not sure I ever read that little in one sitting. (even if I'd repeat the same all the same chapters the next day)

And your main point still rings true.

Haha I think the only thing we disagree about is if I disagreed with you🤣 (you are spot on saying I wasn't considering a plan to finish it all and was more focused on an in depth study all the way through)


Also good to see you too, always love your point of view
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Every single post here my brother falsely accused me of at least one thing or falsely imputed a belief to me while in his defensiveness assumed I was coming against him.

I knew he couldnt see what was true so I was patient.


This most recent time I just wanted it to stop.
 
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Guojing said:
When it come to Paul's gospel of grace alone, of course.

Our main disagreement comes from whether it was the same gospel before Paul was saved, and after the body of Christ is raptured. ;)
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What could they do before paul was saved and after the rapture that would make them worthy of salvation and not in need of grace?
 
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EleventhHour said:
How about the person who bad mouths sex and spends way to much time watching You Tube clips proclaiming the wonderful, albeit non existent, chastity of the Knights Templar?
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The Knights Templar are very serious people and that's why they control England/Britain and the United States. The Knights Templar is a Roman Catholic Order.

God Wills It!
 
Elihoenai said:
The Knights Templar are very serious people and that's why they control England/Britain and the United States. The Knights Templar is a Roman Catholic Order.

God Wills It!
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Yes they exist.
Perhaps they some power ... not sure
However not the point.
Not sure you understand the will of God either
 
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dcontroversal said:
Most could care less about what you have to say....you have already proven that you have a corrupt view and do not know what you are talking about.....!!
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Astute readers are well aware that you have not answered the very important questions posed, thus revealing that you could be a Satanist pretending to be a follower of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

These questions are about Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, that you have dismissed:

Does Yeshua/Jesus have a Human aspect? Does Yeshua/Jesus practice the Law?
 
Elihoenai said:
The Knights Templar are very serious people and that's why they control England/Britain and the United States. The Knights Templar is a Roman Catholic Order.

God Wills It!
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I thought zionest bankers ran the U.S. and Europe and Israel.

wish you guys would get your conspiracy theories straight..
 
preacher4truth said:
The dividing line and problem in this thread is a basic misunderstanding of theology on both sides. Some are accusing others of teaching “having to hold onto Christ” which is countered with the fact Christ holds onto us, John 10:28 for example.

Thus that we hold onto Christ (faith) is prematurely tossed out as “works salvation.” Remember that Paul stated he had kept the faith in 2 Timothy 4:6-8. This of course was by God’s grace in the work of sanctification.

Note that what we are talking about here isn’t salvation at all, it is sanctification. The holding onto Christ scenario has nothing to do with being justified (salvation) but has to do with sanctification, perseverance or preservation of the saints.

Evidence of true conversion is seen in sanctification, as one is being conformed to the image of Christ, note Romans 8:26-30. This transformation happens to all in Christ, not just some; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff.

Evidence of conversion is a necessity, if there is no evidence, there was no conversion.

Let me put it to you like this: In salvation (justification) it is all of God, 100% him. It is therefore monergistic, it was accomplished by a single person namely the work of God. Man gets no glory here for anything.

God chose to save whom he willed according to his purpose; Ephesians 1 and did this all himself. Note 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 showing it is all because of him, not us.

After this comes the post conversion life, something we call sanctification. This is synergistic, meaning a cooperation of two, that is, cooperation of the converted and God which is caused by God’s working within them. Therefore God also gets all the glory here as well. Note Ezekiel 36:27, Philippians 2:12-13.

So, saying we are holding out faith is true yet most fail to recognize that is all to his glory as he causes it to take place. On the other hand those dismissing this as works salvation are making a category error as this isn’t about saving ones self, it is about post conversion sanctification.

The other side errs in thinking it is solely something they are doing, like they are keeping on believing &c. The only reason they do this is because God causes them to will and do it because they are truly converted. It adds nor contributes nothing to their justification or final redemption, it only evidences that God is doing this in them, causing their cooperation.
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Not that I agree
Since you still have not been able to clarify what the metric/method of observing true conversion, whether is over the course of a lifetime, after a week, on a good day, on a bad day, ten bad years followed by one good year etc., etc.,
Sanctification is not monergistic
A rather simplified, rigid view of the discipleship and the Christian walk

however....

@Judges1318 is definitely not speaking to sanctification as the outward display of our new inward reality in Christ, here in this post there is misrepresentation of his beliefs to enable your support.

He believes salvation can be lost if one stops believing and promotes that this does in fact occur.
 
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blue_ladybug said:
Being sinless and perfect is impossible in this life. The ONLY way we could be sinless and perfect, is if we were immortals.. Which we aren't, and that is why Jesus died for our sins on the cross..
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1 Corinthians 15:53 King James Version (KJV)

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


You must Put on Immortality!
 
Elihoenai said:
Astute readers are well aware that you have not answered the very important questions posed, thus revealing that you could be a Satanist pretending to be a follower of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

These questions are about Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, that you have dismissed:

Does Yeshua/Jesus have a Human aspect? Does Yeshua/Jesus practice the Law?
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Astute readers cannot believe the craziness of your posts :rolleyes:
 
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preacher4truth said:
I only agreed with his evidence of conversion post. But to you and others that means I endorse him in everything and must be attacked, ganged up on and ridiculed. It is a convenient out for all of you.

Sadly any of your sides rebuttals are out of context Scriptures, so no, you've offered zero refutation and have shown zero errors on my part. But do provide some actual quotes where you think this happened.

Please go read "The Potters Freedom." You'll see why I make these statements, all of yours and others arguments against the doctrines of grace are Scriptures used out of context. Every single time.

Yes, you are mouthy, very mouthy, in an ungodly manner, multiple times per day, a lifestyle of yours, a lack of the fruit of the spirit, no self control. James says your religion is vain, argue with that scripture, or submit and repent.

Go read the book and get with me.
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You pretty much confirmed everything I said in my post...go look in the mirror hypoctite and make no mistske....your problem and why you peddle error is because you view scripture through the lense of idolatry and a man (Calvin) instead of being led by the Spirit of God....good luck!
 
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