Not By Works

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Chris1975 said:
Salvation cannot be earned. Righteousness is imputed to us. It is received through faith (we believe in Jesus Christ). It can be lost through Apostasy. I have just posted a passage in Galatians above which proves this.

Your faith needs to be a continual faith. Not a One-Time Faith. One time faith will not save you.
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If this were true then.... imputed righteousness and salvation cannot be granted until one dies since a one time faith does not save.

You promote Catholic doctrine but you are trying to cover it up.
 
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Discern said:
I believe in continual faith.

I think waiting for the hope of righteousness is in regards to glorification, when we shall be like Him for we shall see Him us He is, and perhapscalso progressive sanctification, which is when we are transformed from glory to glory as we are beholding His Face by the Spirit. 2 Cor 3:18
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Eleventh Hour does not believe continual faith is necessary, because it was all sorted back at conversion event.
 
EleventhHour said:
If this were true then.... imputed righteousness and salvation cannot be granted until one dies since a one time faith does not save.

You promote Catholic doctrine but you are trying to cover it up.
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Your journey does not end when you convert. It has just started.

Who are the righteous?

1 John 3
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
 
EleventhHour said:
The question that no one can answer... how much disobedience?

Is a lie sufficient?
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Well disobedience without conviction.... to be able to call good evil and evil good without any sort of care for God....

That would be evidence to someone on the outside looking in.... and possibly proof to someone looking within themselves... (though they may not 'see' it in their willful ignorance)

Disobedience followed by sorrow and a desire for righteousness and forgiveness while seeing Gods will as good and seeing the opposite as wicked... would not be evidence of unbelief so much as evidence of spiritual immaturity depending on what this "disobedience" was....


A lie which hurts and burns to be brought to light is one thing....

A life of lying for personal gain without the thought of how others are effected or how much God hates that is another....

Though I would say both count as disobedience and without our Lord and savior Jesus Christ more than enough to condemn us... justly....
 
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Chris1975 said:
>Correct. Works don't earn salvation.
>Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. His blood is the atoning sacrifice. We cannot earn this. It required perfection, which he accomplished by fulfilling the law in full, perfectly. They crucified him, applying the death penalty to an innocent man. He became the scapegoat and we the goat that was set free. Jesus was crucified but Barabbus (us) set free.
>Obedience is evidence of FAITH
>Disobedience is evidence OF UNBELIEF
>Repentance is evidence of FAITH
>Apostasy - falling away from the faith is possible due to continued, willfull, unrepentant sin in a persons life that leads him/her away from the Faith.

>By Grace you are saved THROUGH FAITH.
>If by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live.
>Those who ARE CHRISTS have crucified the flesh and its desires.
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Everything Chris typed here is correct. Notice though he said “fall away from THE faith”. The word “the” is very important here. It would have a very different meaning if the word “the” was not there
 
EleventhHour said:
If this were true then.... imputed righteousness and salvation cannot be granted until one dies since a one time faith does not save.

You promote Catholic doctrine but you are trying to cover it up.
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I am not Catholic nor do I promote their doctrine. If you die IN CHRIST you are secure. But you have a journey through life as a pilgrim, and its a walk of faith. You will be attacked by the devil through temptations. You are to respond in faith. You will be attacked by false doctrines and teachings. You are to respond in faith. If you allow yourself to slip into apostasy (loss of faith) through false doctrines or continued and unrepentant willful disobedience, then you become apostate. From which there is no return.
 
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OneOfHis said:
Well disobedience without conviction.... to be able to call good evil and evil good without any sort of care for God....

That would be evidence to someone on the outside looking and..... and possibly proof to someone looking within themselves... (though they may not 'see' it in their willful ignorance)

Disobedience followed by sorrow and a desire for righteousness and forgiveness while seeing Gods will as good and seeing the opposite as wicked... would not be evidence of unbelief so much as evidence of spiritual immaturity depending on what this "disobedience" was....


A lie which hurts and burns to be brought to light is one thing....

A life of lying for personal gain without the thought of how others are effected or how much God hates that is another....

Though I would say both count as disobedience and without our Lord and savior Jesus Christ more than enough to condemn us... justly....
Click to expand...

Yes. Heart condition is the issue. A Christian sins and sorrows. They sin and confess. They sin and turn from it

A nominal Christian and an unsaved person has a different attitude towards sin

And our attitude largely determines our walk.
 
OneOfHis said:
Well disobedience without conviction.... to be able to call good evil and evil good without any sort of care for God....

That would be evidence to someone on the outside looking and..... and possibly proof to someone looking within themselves... (though they may not 'see' it in their willful ignorance)

Disobedience followed by sorrow and a desire for righteousness and forgiveness while seeing Gods will as good and seeing the opposite as wicked... would not be evidence of unbelief so much as evidence of spiritual immaturity depending on what this "disobedience" was....


A lie which hurts and burns to be brought to light is one thing....

A life of lying for personal gain without the thought of how others are effected or how much God hates that is another....

Though I would say both count as disobedience and without our Lord and savior Jesus Christ more than enough to condemn us... justly....
Click to expand...

Yes but we are not under condemnation... and God is more than able to deal with sin in the life of the believer as they yield themselves to Him and His Grace.

Obedience is abiding, yielding to His divine influence not law keeping... agree?
 
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Discern said:
Yes. Heart condition is the issue. A Christian sins and sorrows. They sin and confess. They sin and turn from it

A nominal Christian and an unsaved person has a different attitude towards sin

And our attitude largely determines our walk.
Click to expand...

I find when I fail best to look at His righteousness... that is the only way to turn from it.
 
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Chris1975 said:
If you allow yourself to slip into apostasy (loss of faith) through false doctrines or continued and unrepentant willful disobedience, then you become apostate. From which there is no return.
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So we do not know the cut off point?

A week, a year, five years?

My Gospel is based on scripture as well as reason (rational) yours not so much.

Basically you make Jesus a failure and His work a failure and you are earning your salvation that is completely clear from your statement above.
 
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Discern said:
Yes. Heart condition is the issue. A Christian sins and sorrows. They sin and confess. They sin and turn from it

A nominal Christian and an unsaved person has a different attitude towards sin

And our attitude largely determines our walk.
Click to expand...
Praise God for giving His sheep new hearts....


We may not have the best attitude.... and He may need to correct some walks more than others..... He will even turn back and find one of His who has strayed far off....
He is so loving....


Some of us may be ahead of the group NOW.... but He loves those who He turned back for just as much as the rest.. I'm sure if we look back far enough we can see ourselves in some of those who fell behind.... we all are headed to the same place by His power ... we couldn't make it without Him
 
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EleventhHour said:
So we do not know the cut off point?

A week, a year, five years?

My Gospel is based on scripture as well as reason (rational) yours not so much.

Basically you make Jesus a failure and His work a failure and you are earning your salvation that is completely clear from your statement above.
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You "allow yourself" by the CHOICES you make.
 
EleventhHour said:
I find when I fail best to look at His righteousness... that is the only way to turn from it.
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Yes, and as we look at Him, beholding Him, we can be transformed from glory to glory

We don’t turn from sin merely by willpower. We turn from it by submitting and abiding while He transforms us. You cannot turn from sin without heart transformation.

But resisting sin by Gods grace and abiding also opens us up wide open to transformation

I don’t do anything with the motive of trying to keep salvation. The best motive for all of it is a desire to be like Him. And that desire is God given and flows out of our new nature

But we must walk according to our new nature not our old. The motive not being to earn salvation, but to obtain the blessing and gift of Christlikeness, which is the purpose of our redemption

Predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
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Chris1975 said:
When your lying doesn't bother you anymore. It's inconsequential. When you have quenched the Holy Spirit. That is a very dangerous tipping point.
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Listen up Chris... the only option other than Grace is Law

You teach Grace is not sufficient and the work of Christ is limited... therefore you are teaching salvation by law keeping and I have more bad news for you.......... no human was ever justified by law keeping.

It has always been a one time event by faith!
 
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