Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

LOL work of faith that began in Christ

This forum is GREAT

These 3 or 4 clowns consistently skew the word of God.......it is sickening how they do this....absolutely satanic......same thing the SNAKE did in the garden........

 

[dcontroversal]

LOL work of faith that began in Christ

This forum is GREAT

These 3 or 4 clowns consistently skew the word of God.......it is sickening how they do this....absolutely satanic......same thing the SNAKE did in the garden........

The Jews are a prime example of a chosen people who were loved by God, but cast aside by Him.

They were not eternally secure. Let it be a warning to you.

False........and reeks of a complete ignorance of why and the N.T........

 

[preacher4truth]

It doesn't.
Even right in John's letter where he says 'those who left show they were never with us' he instructs the believers who remained to not leave, too. That obviously indicates 1 John 2:19 doesn't mean what once saved always saved is sure it means. Besides, the believing Galatians and Corinthians departed from the pure message of the gospel they received. They were really saved, and they left. Kind of ruins the once saved always saved interpretation of 1 John 2:19. So it means something else, and I think it has to do with the reason why they left. The leaving in their case seems to have had to do with never having the correct fundamental knowledge of Christ's appearance in the world upon which to be born again.

Where in the text did he say don’t leave too? Please provide from 1 John 2. Secondly, your answer is nonsensical and doesn’t prove your false doctrine, for if any others left they would also prove they were “never of us” and that is straight from its context and is biblical.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ok, this has nothing to do with salvation of the soul in eternity of going to hell. It's about having a good testimony being a good minister.

6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

AMEN........this clown Chris, Ralph and the other two absolutely deny context on a regular basis.........not to mention they embellish, change words, deny words, and flat misrepresent the word of God on such a regular basis that the Jeezus they peddle makes a mockery of the the Jesus of the bible.

OH...their religions they espouse and represent have a form of godliness, but they consistently deny the power thereof......

JESUS plus SELF = hell to pay!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Firstly, I have been on the forum for almost 3 years, not since April.
"We are examining your Fruit" - we who are the "We"? OSAS believers only? X number of Posts Posters? Who are the "We"?

Looking at what the moderators posted here: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/
It seems to me that the moderators actually have it RIGHT. They see this very destructive doctrine. And it seems to have taken root to a degree. I have also seen a lot of people banned over the years Grace777 etc with whom there have been epic battles over doctrine. As to why some are or are not banned is not up to me (or I suspect the "We" club)? It is up to the moderators. If the moderators views still hold, then I think they can be glad that there are a few voices still standing for the truth against this Hyper Grace heresy.

So you can shout as loud as you want that its not necessary to HOLD ONTO the Faith. I for one will never yield to that doctrine. Nor will I be quieted about this. A lot of established contributors here have their noses out of joint as I quote mainly scripture to refute OSAS. And I will continue to do so. Because this is the Bible Discussion Forum.

I have nothing personal against anyone here. My prayer is that eyes are opened.

you sure did miss ALOT of people who got banned, I can name numerous people who just like you teach works. Who have been banned, and continue to return under different names. Which just exposes what we know about all works people. They refuse to admit anything They do is wrong,

and we will continue to expose you with the many passages which prove eternal security. Passages you have proven you have no desire to discuss,

good luck in trying to convince people your. Not trying to earn salvation, and we all should try to save ourselves by our deeds.

 

[dcontroversal]

Umm, well are you going to discuss scripture or what?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
King James Version (KJV)

Good luck bro.....the ignorance is strong with this one.....

 

[dcontroversal]

you sure did miss ALOT of people who got banned, I can name numerous people who just like you teach works. Who have been banned, and continue to return under different names. Which just exposes what we know about all works people. They refuse to admit anything They do is wrong,

and we will continue to expose you with the many passages which prove eternal security. Passages you have proven you have no desire to discuss,

good luck in trying to convince people your. Not trying to earn salvation, and we all should try to save ourselves by our deeds.

It is a very good thing we are not in the O.T. time frame.......because he is one of the worst "falsies" I have seen on this site.....

 

[dcontroversal]

He does discuss scripture, the whole time.

Not hardly....more like he twists, skews, yanks scripture out of context to peddle that which the bible does not say...get your facts straight man........your are supporting a "falsie" that devalues JESUS.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is a very good thing we are not in the O.T. time frame.......because he is one of the worst "falsies" I have seen on this site.....

He is not the worse, he has not fallen to the level of Petey, or is it, or some of the others, but he is right up there close to them

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus reply...

vs 44 - 51 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

1. remember before jesus said eternal life was given if they trusted the god of heaven who sent jesus, He also said eternal life came from those who came to him and believed in him
2, now he confuses them even more,which hardens their hearts even more, and the ones who will be left will be the ones who truely believe.
3. the people who come to christ are taught by God the father, it is he who gives them understanding.
4. again he reiterates, he who believes in christ (whether them who have seen him, or us who have not) will have eternal life.
5. He again says, " I am the bread of life " and states a fact, the people who ate the manna are physically dead, the people who eat the spiritual life, will live eternally in spiritual terms,, they will still die, so jesus is not talking in physical, but spiritual terms.
6. Jesus tells exactly what the bread is. His death on the cross, For it is his death burial and ressurection that has paid the price God demands from us, he took the penalty for us, and paid the debt we owe God..Again, he is talking spiritually not physically..

peoples response...

vs 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

1. Again the people are confused, they are trying to understand what jesus saying as physical not spiritual. just like when they tried to take jesus physical body when he said he is the bread from heaven, (speaking spiritually)

Jesus reply.

vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

1. Again speaking spiritually here, jesus comes back at them saying unless we eat of his body and drink his blood, we shall not see life (eternally or spiritually)
2. Again the people, thinking literally and not spiritually, were offended, thinking Jesus meant to literally eat his Physical flesh and drink his Physical blood.

Even some disciples are offended..

vs 60 - 60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

Jesus reply...

vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

1. Jesus reafirms that it is the spirit who gives life, Again trying to show them that it is spiritual in nature. It is the word of God which Gives life.
2. He says that the flesh profits nothing. the literal interpretation of Jesus being bread, and we have to literally eat him is no better than eating the spiritual manna, Listen to what he is saying spiritually. not taking it literally.

continuing...

vs 64 - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

1, due to their lack of belief, or hard hearts, many walked away because of their misinterpretation.
2. One, who stays now, still does not believe but he will leave before it is over (judas)
This also PROVES God knows who really believes, and who does not believe. Those who do not believe will not come. And is why jesus said, he who does not believe is condemned because they have not believed

Jesus response to those who are left...

vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

1. Peter responds that he knows what Christ meant by the bread, the flesh and the blood. "You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God
2. It is the words of Christ, and who he is and what he is going to do that is the bread of life. Not the physical body and blood.
3. Note also later after christs death, peter confirms this message, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" even after he denies christ.. Peter understands totaly that it is the words of Christ, and what he did in our place that is the bread of life, And is the bread which gives eternal life.
4. Jesus confirms here, That it was him who chose them (drew them out) and later, when Peter re-replyes these remarks remembering this day, jesus confirms by saying it is upon that belief, it is upon that bread of life, it is upon that rock that his church will be built on. Again speaking spiritually (bread) and not literally (peter)

conclusion. This passage totally destroys NOSAS,

1. The only labor God requires is to seek after this "food" which endures forever
2. This food is Jesus himself the bread from heaven
3. whoever seeks is led by God himself. and when they come they will, as Jesus himself stated

Never hunger or thirst
Never die
Live forever
HAS eternal life
Will live as long as Jesus (our high priest) lives (he will never die so neither will we)
Will NEVER be tossed out
WILL be ressurected
WILL never be lost.

and IRREVOCABLY given as a gift...these clowns have no concept of the word GIFT and Irrevocable

 

[dcontroversal]

He is not the worse, he has not fallen to the level of Petey, or is it, or some of the others, but he is right up there close to them

That is why I said ONE of the worst

 

[dcontroversal]

What happens to the sheep when they walk away? What did Jesus say happened?

What Did John say seperated the what and the chaff? And where was the wheat placed and what happened to the Chaff?

My bible states clearly that the Good shepherd will leave the 99 to find the one that went astray and wandered off.

 

[VCO]

My question was regarding the "believe for a while and then fall away" part. No need to get upset. If you do not want to discuss the topic at hand why are you here? I was being very polite, and so were you when you answered my questions regarding 1 Cor 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21 and I have not brought those up again, these verses I brought up because I have not found a good answer for them yet. What is the problem?

What some do not understand, is ALL Church Goers are disciples, but NOT all disciples are Not Born Again Believers.

Unsaved disciples can and WILL Fall Away, because they NEVER WERE SAVED. Only Born Again BELIEVERS have their SALVATION, firmly in CHRIST's Mighty Grips.


Yes I saw you responded to my post with a Friendly hearts, so I appreciate that response to #118,072 . I think I must have over reacted to the following post:

[quote = Chris1975]Have a shot at answering TooFastTurtles scripture he posted. Give it a shot. I don't think he was being nasty about anything. These are pretty straightforward scriptures which are very difficult for OSAS. [/quote]

So I apologize, sorry that I misunderstood.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

 

[dcontroversal]

We keep believing because we KNOW we HAVE eternal life (the apostle John)

You have no power to keep believing, the power to keep believing is Gods power to keep you saved (eternal security)

I cannot alleviate the following truth...

IF WE become FAITHLESS, HE abides faithful because he cannot DENY HIMSELF

The APOSTLE includes HIMSELF in this equation by the use of WE

FROM FAITH to FAITH it is written.... <---THE FAITH of CHRIST is GIFTED to US, HE begins it, HE finishes it, HE completes IT IN US REGARDLESS if we BECOME FAITHLESS!

THERE are NO verses in context that teach, imply, prove that a SAVED MAN can LOSE salvation....EVEN if they BECOME FAITHLESS after initial FAITH.

BECOMING FAITHLESS is LIKE any other SIN in a believer.....

and where SIN abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS the MORE

 

[dcontroversal]

Please stop with your false accusations. I get sick of you people and your arrogance and thinking it is ok to lie about others with no consequences.

Bearing false witness is a lie. and is breaking the ten commands, If you preach obedience, yet continually break the law. Your a hypocrite. Sorry for venting. but it is the truth

If you are not willing to understand what we believe, then stop. You make yourself look foolish when you false accuse people who you do not understand.

We do not ignore the living part. We endorse and preach it through discipleship.

100% agree....BOTH he and RALPHIE-POO constantly accuse those that believe in eternal security falsely of things we neither say and or promote....they liars and deceivers of PAUL's day did the same thing to PAUL

 

[dcontroversal]

If one looks at the note on this verse, or in the greek. The word (take away) is not the correct translation

The correct translation is LIFT UP.

it is a common known term in those who take care of these vinyards. When branches tough the ground, they die and do not produce fruit. So what they do is LIFT UP the branch, CUT OFF THE DEAD PARTS of the vine, so that the part that remains alive will not die and begin to produce fruit again.

It is not lose of salvation. It is cutting off our bad parts. so that we can grow and start to produce fruit.

EXACTLY..........another misused set of verses by the salvation losers, workers for, and cake taking Cainologists......I.E. THE clowns

 

[dcontroversal]

It's a matter of being a son who inherits eternal life and being one who doesn't.

Remember, Abraham had two sons.

Ignorance and contextual stupidity alert....

 

[dcontroversal]

Saul was a believer... for GB9 (helping with the highlighter).

I agree.....Saul was punished under the law for his sin......these same clowns in this thread like you, continually conflate the old and New while trying to peddle a losabe salvation......and in so doing will bring the judgement of GOD at the Great White Throne against themselves instead of standing at the Bema seat of Christ

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul was a great debater and always argued both sides of the argument so people could see where he was coming from before he showed us the right way. If his remarks are inconclusive, it pays to read on to his final conclusion.

Yep and he concludes that a man was saved and justified eternally by faith..........and then placed into a position of GRACE where sin is out bounded by said GRACE.......and our REWARD will be based upon our ACTIONS, but OUR standing is SURE.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Then, even after having ample opportunity you have failed to educate those you disagree with.

Not hardly clown.....try this instead, you jokers have simply rejected the truth and in ignorance continue to keep your eyes shut to the truth.