Not By Works

[RebuildJesussChurch]

All is true and all is scriptural.

May the Lord turn all his insults back on his own head, as Nehemiah prayed. Though being blessed by the Lord is pretty wonderful when we are insulted for the Son of Man.

 

[PennEd]

In fact I never want to hear another WARNING from an OSASSER about being a works salvationist, because I personally believe that Jesus died for my sin, and paid the price that I could not (see I am a believer). Now, never warn me about works or the danger about losing my salvation through works (because by your own theology I am secure, even though according to you I may be deceived)

You are missing the point that you are calling the Lord Jesus Christ either a failure, and unable to keep you His, or a liar in saying He will unseal you BEFORE the day of redemption, leave and forsake you, separate you from Him, and have someone snatch you from His and the Father's Hands.

 

[Chris1975]

You are missing the point that you are calling the Lord Jesus Christ either a failure, and unable to keep you His, or a liar in saying He will unseal you BEFORE the day of redemption, leave and forsake you, separate you from Him, and have someone snatch you from His and the Father's Hands.

You are missing the point that my post was purposely tongue in cheek.

 

[CherieR]

In fact I never want to hear another WARNING from an OSASSER about being a works salvationist, because I personally believe that Jesus died for my sin, and paid the price that I could not (see I am a believer). Now, never warn me about works or the danger about losing my salvation through works (because by your own theology I am secure, even though according to you I may be deceived)

That is good you believe in Jesus. Do you also believe that you are eternally secure in Jesus Christ? Do you believe that someone with genuine faith in Jesus is forever secure? What keeps a Christian forever saved? What is the difference between genuine faith and a faith that is false or superficial?

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Lets look at the three verses that OSASSERS have been ignoring the whole day, as posted by Turtle.

James 5

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save [l]a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
>a brother wandering from the truth
>turning back
>save a SOUL from death


1 Timothy 4

16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
>Continue in them (pretty much destroys EG and DCON heresies right there)
>save (salvation). As a result of.......yes....Continuation.


Luke 8

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of [g]temptation fall away.
>ahhh yes - they BELIEVE for a while. I suspect the OSASSERS will say they never really believed, contradicting what the bible says.
>fall away in time of temptation (I thought OSASSERS said you cannot fall away?)
>OSSASERS are really stuck with this one. If they say these weren't believers then the say the bible lies. If they say they are believers, then this doctrine of them falling away breaks their paradigm. Hmmm.

What you said in red is exactly my concern. How do we reconcile this with Jesus saying all those who come to Him won't be cast out and will be raised on the last day?

 

[EleventhHour]

You are all over the place. Responses in Red

I am wondering how following scripture makes me all over the place?

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

And I will respond to the rest momentarily ...first I need to read over and make notes! LOL

 

[TooFastTurtle]

You are missing the point that you are calling the Lord Jesus Christ either a failure, and unable to keep you His, or a liar in saying He will unseal you BEFORE the day of redemption, leave and forsake you, separate you from Him, and have someone snatch you from His and the Father's Hands.

This argument should not be used unless you are a Calvinist, here is why:

Jesus is said to be the one sanctifying, monergistic sanctification. Now, if indeed someone is saved and does not live a life pleasing to God at all, Jesus has already failed in the sanctification department. Unless you believe its us that failed not Jesus, we did not do our part Titus 2:11 comes to mind

I personally believe it is up to us to repent and why do I believe it? Not because of any prideful reason but simply because I see God command people to repent, if God commands it, it does not matter if people call it works salvation or anything else, I did not write the Bible and if it was up to me everyone would be saved. I just want to deal with the Scriptures rather than the memes, which both sides have.

 

[PennEd]

This argument should not be used unless you are a Calvinist, here is why:

Jesus is said to be the one sanctifying, monergistic sanctification. Now, if indeed someone is OSAS and does not live a life pleasing to God at all, but is still saved but just loses rewards, Jesus has already failed in the sanctification department. This is obviously not to those who believe we play a part in sanctification, which I know is probably many here

I personally believe it is up to us to repent and why do I believe it? Not because of any prideful reason but simply because I see God command people to repent, if God commands it, it does not matter if people call it works salvation or anything else, I did not write the Bible and if it was up to me everyone would be saved. I just want to deal with the Scriptures rather than the memes, which both sides have.

It's not an argument. It's Scripture.

Is Jesus a weak failure, unable to keep you His?

Or did He lie when He said he'd never leave nor forsake, SEAL you with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, have NOTHING imaginable that could separate you from Him, and have NOTHING take you out of His and the Father's Hands?

ALL of that is Scriptural. I will not argue with you, just pray that you trust SOLELY in Him!

 

[CherieR]

What you said in red is exactly my concern. How do we reconcile this with Jesus saying all those who come to Him won't be cast out and will be raised on the last day?

If you have questions on how to reconcile bible passages, keep looking into it and ask others and a pastor if you like. I would probably check different sources and read about how different people see things from Scripture. Sometimes you may run into passages that are hard to understand together and reconcile. That's ok. I have ran into that as well and I don't understand everything I read either. In particular the Old Testament prophets are tricky for me often times.

 

[Chris1975]

That is good you believe in Jesus. Yes Do you also believe that you are eternally secure in Jesus Christ? Yes Do you believe that someone with genuine faith in Jesus is forever secure? Yes. What keeps a Christian forever saved? Continued Faith in Christ What is the difference between genuine faith and a faith that is false or superficial? Well there really isn't a faith that is false or superficial, because it doesn't exist. Its not called faith, its called unbelief. There is only faith, and varying degrees of this faith. How do we know that we are in the faith? Well the bible tells us the following: 2 Corinthians 13v5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. So the excellent question you raised is how do we know? What is the test? Well, are you walking according to the Spirit or the Flesh. Are you yielding to the leading of the Holy Spirit? Is the good tree bringing forth good fruit? How do we know whether someone is a false prophet? By their fruit. So we are to apply the same test to ourselves. If we feel the pang of conviction, that is the HS working with you. What is your response? Repentance, or quietening down the voice of the Spirit?

TIC mode off.
Responses in Red

 

[Chris1975]

What you said in red is exactly my concern. How do we reconcile this with Jesus saying all those who come to Him won't be cast out and will be raised on the last day?

God makes a promise that He will never leave or forsake us. It however does not preclude us leaving or forsaking Him. How does this happen? The bible talks of those who draw back. Their faith becomes shipwrecked.

It usually starts with unaddressed sins in their lives. The Holy Spirit draw you, brings conviction. However you can QUENCH the Spirit by ignoring His leading (this is commonly known as living according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit). What looks like the right road ends up leading you away from the path of life. Without judging yourself and bringing these sins to Jesus in repentance, your conscience eventually becomes seared. You don't think sin is "that bad", or you justify to yourself that we are all sinners so its "ok". What the "believer" doesn't realise is that they are already not in the faith at this point. They have become Apostate. They never realised that they created God in their own image. They had a view of God that did not marry to what scriptures described. Never forget that God is a Holy God.

At any point along this continuum, the Believer can return to the Lord in sincere repentance and find the Grace he needs. However there comes a point where the sinner becomes a willfull participant in disobedience as a lifestyle choice. For these, they have reached the point of no return (Heb 10v26).

The promises of God are powerful to those who CLING to Him. And nothing can touch such a person.

 

[EleventhHour]

May the Lord turn all his insults back on his own head, as Nehemiah prayed. Though being blessed by the Lord is pretty wonderful when we are insulted for the Son of Man.

May the Lord open the eyes of those who preach against the completed work of Christ.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

May the Lord open the eyes of those who preach against the completed work of Christ.

Amen!

Our works have nothing to do with getting saved. Getting saved transforms what we do.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly lives in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who gave Himself for us to deliver us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

 

[Chris1975]

God makes a promise that He will never leave or forsake us. It however does not preclude us leaving or forsaking Him. How does this happen? The bible talks of those who draw back. Their faith becomes shipwrecked.

It usually starts with unaddressed sins in their lives. The Holy Spirit draw you, brings conviction. However you can QUENCH the Spirit by ignoring His leading (this is commonly known as living according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit). What looks like the right road ends up leading you away from the path of life. Without judging yourself and bringing these sins to Jesus in repentance, your conscience eventually becomes seared. You don't think sin is "that bad", or you justify to yourself that we are all sinners so its "ok". What the "believer" doesn't realise is that they are already not in the faith at this point. They have become Apostate. They never realised that they created God in their own image. They had a view of God that did not marry to what scriptures described. Never forget that God is a Holy God.

At any point along this continuum, the Believer can return to the Lord in sincere repentance and find the Grace he needs. However there comes a point where the sinner becomes a willfull participant in disobedience as a lifestyle choice. For these, they have reached the point of no return (Heb 10v26).

The promises of God are powerful to those who CLING to Him. And nothing can touch such a person.

Look at how the Amplified Bible records in in 1 Timothy 1 19 keeping your faith [leaning completely on God with absolute trust and confidence in His guidance] and having a good conscience; for some [people] have rejected [their moral compass] and have made a shipwreck of their faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No false accusation. Post Number 117993 he said that it is not necessary to continue in the faith. But hey, you also pretty much believe that because according to you, you cannot lose your salvation.

Dude your lies will find you out. I said no such thing I said continue to believ was not in the passage which it is not
if you can not have an honest conversation I suggest you go elsewhere

 

[EleventhHour]

Lets cut right to the chase.

To Eternally-Grateful, a practicing Satanist can Come to Christ, commit his life to the Lord, pick up the free gift of Salvation…..and then go back to being a Satanist. In this scenario, Eternally Grateful says this person will still be saved. Because Eternally-Grateful says that this person DOESNT HAVE TO REMAIN in the Lord. He/or She says that once the gift is given it is irreversible.

And we all, deep down, know that the above is not true Christianity. Some here may lie to themselves, but they deep down know that this scenario is untenable.

back to being a Satanist.

You slander us by stating that we preach that one can do evil and good will come...evidenced above.

We do not preach that... you accuse us of that.... as in above ... what you are doing is using distorted reasoning and placing it on us.

Why do you do this....... because you feel your works have something to do with salvation... self - worth.

Our deeds do not determine our salvation .. it is faith that justifies... justifies is a one time event which places us in Christ Jesus.

We preach that all sin was dealt with at the cross.. we do not make light of sin... however, we have the correct remedy for sin..we preach the solution to sin is grace.

You however preach self-effort to stay saved ie

DOESNT HAVE TO REMAIN

self- effort .......not grace.

Christ remains in us......... you preach against grace.

 

[Chris1975]

Dude your lies will find you out. I said no such thing I said continue to believ was not in the passage which it is not
if you can not have an honest conversation I suggest you go elsewhere

E-G "if continues to believe is required. Then we will continue to thirst."

 

[EleventhHour]

Amen!

Our works have nothing to do with getting saved. Getting saved transforms what we do.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly lives in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who gave Himself for us to deliver us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

If you believed this then you would know that we are secure in Him.

 

[Chris1975]

You slander us by stating that we preach that one can do evil and good will come...evidenced above.

We do not preach that... you accuse us of that.... as in above ... what you are doing is using distorted reasoning and placing it on us.

Why do you do this....... because you feel your works have something to do with salvation... self - worth.

Our deeds do not determine our salvation .. it is faith that justifies... justifies is a one time event which places us in Christ Jesus.

We preach that all sin was dealt with at the cross.. we do not make light of sin... however, we have the correct remedy for sin..we preach the solution to sin is grace.

You however preach self-effort to stay saved ie self- effort .......not grace.

Christ remains in us... that is grace........ you preach against grace.

Ok. Lets do this. What is your answer to the example used of the Satanist. Is he saved or not?

Just a Yes or No.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

If you believed this then you would know that we are secure in Him.

The church at Laodicea were very secure!
Paul knew he could be disqualified for the prize. He said "If by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead." O, but you lot have it tied up. I wish I could be so complacent.
"Keep yourself in the love of God." Guess that wasn't written to you either.