I am certainly not against standing for what we believe.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I am certainly not against standing for what we believe.
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EleventhHour
Guest
I can see that in your posts for sure.
Not because we believe it only (subjective) ... but rather because it is biblical truth (objective).
I believe I might possibly see diverse people like George Whitefield, John Wesley, RC Sproul, Chuck Smith, and David Wilkerson all lifting hands to Jesus in heaven.
But none of the ones listed above taught earning or being worthy of salvation, to be sure
I can see that in your posts for sure.
Not because we believe it only (subjective) ... but rather because it is biblical truth (objective).
Well said
what is this?
And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.”
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.”
(Isaiah 6:9-10)
Jesus declares the fulfillment of this in John 12, saying "therefore they cannot believe" in v.39
not an easy question! it blows my mind, but it's the truth
“Salvation is by the faith that continues to the end. “Quote
That is why Hebrews 3:6 says that ARE His house if we hold fast our confidence. And 3:1y says we HAVE BEEN made partakers if we hold fast to the end.
The salvation comes before the holding fast, and the holding fast is demonstrative of a person who has already been made a partaker of Christ
Works are the footsteps of faith...Quote
Yes, James said “if a man has faith and has not works, can THAT faith save him? There is a living faith and a dead faith. A living faith is connected to God, and brings spiritual life. A dead faith is a faith that is disconnected from God, ( the devils believe and tremble”) and brings no life.
Saving faith is both living and enduring.
I think we all have common ground here ( I hope)
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EleventhHour
Guest
A dead faith is an inoperative faith..... a faith that is not being used.
Only something that was once alive can be dead... and since we know OSAS is true ... we need to understand that this "dead, inoperative, faith" is a faith that was not being displayed outwardly.
When you hear Gods Word again and again and again and again, and disregard it again and again and again, it has a hardening effect. ( very evident in Capernaum and Bethesda and my own country).
So God knew that isaiahs words would harden the hearers. Because when you hear Gods Word, you are either softened or hardened
Like an illustation I heard. Sunlight melts some things and hardens other things. That is the way the Word of God effects human hearts
Every time a person hears and rejects, a hardening takes place. But God can remove hardness. It takes a miracle
But James said “can such faith( dead faith) save him?” That is a rhetorical question of which the intended answer is no
Dead faith is no different than the devils who believe and tremble
Calvin says they were purposely created for that purpose--to be an unbeliever and to remain one and to never be a believer.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t believe God created people to damn them. But even His allowing them to exist, ( He could just erase them if He wanted to), is that even they fulfill part of His purpose.
Like Pharoah. “For this purpose I raised you up...”
God demonstrates both mercy and justice.
IMO that's how everyone who is saved, became saved. we all have free will, and the only thing we do with it is reject Him -- until He, by His own will, according to His own purpose, changes our will, enabling us to see, to hear, to understand, and to believe. and then when we walk in Him, we're no longer walking in our own will - but in His will, as it was predestined for us.
i never called sin 'sin' in my heart before i ran after Him. one day my view radically changed, and i had repentance. i can't see how that was my own doing, without some intervention from heaven fundamentally altering me. i had become persuaded.
preaching - that's a particular form of communication; it's 'persuasive speech' -- the intent is to change the mind of the person hearing it. so even those people who still think they 'decided' to believe Christ all of their own free will; that's bogus. they heard the gospel and were persuaded by the hearing. that's being influenced; that's being changed. that's the word going out and accomplishing its purpose; it's you or i having been fundamentally affected by what we heard, effecting a change in us bringing about faith. there is no 'uncoerced free will action' in humans but to entertain their own vanities.
((IMO))
i'm not talking 'calvinism' btw. i'm talking about what i know from what i have observed in my own life, and about what i comprehend the scripture to be saying: He enables us to come to Him, and we never would, unless He does so - and all that the Father draws, do come, and none are turned away or ever cast out. it's God doing the work, and it's me, receiving the benefit of His mercy. it's not what i thought when it happened to me; it's what i came to realize when i learned more of Him. when it happened, i thought i was deciding for myself. i thought i was pulling the trigger.
Is there a reason you dismissed my question?
Have you ever been a CC member under a different name?
does he actually say that or is that an implication some people arrive at?
i've never read anything he wrote.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No it’s not, the first chapter gives us the context.
if any man teach any other gospel. Let him be accursed
you who are being justified by law
ots about false teachers and those being decieved by them and a warning to come to true faith.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
He does not believe this
i have heard his false teachings for multiple years now.
he is not my brother
God says through Isaiah, blind them, them, so that they will not turn, and be healed. Jesus says, therefore they could not believe.
there's a purposeful action here with an intended result, which i found utterly astounding!! it's not just happenstance, like, yeah, some will probably harden, some will probably soften, let's see how it shakes out -- no, He intentionally hardens in order to exclude those under His judgement. God knows what He does, and He does all He intends.
i believe in our nascent human condition separated from God, all reject it, unless He intervenes and grants us to come to Him.