Not By Works
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I suppose it depends on the person. Some take offense more easily while some don't. I would like to learn more of how to not take offense as easily.
On another thought this here is one of nature's best vermin catchers:
Unless maybe he is like this cat:
Considering the following (post), at which point in time do you believe the word "Today" ^ refers (considering that the Father says it):
--[quotes from BibleHub-->] "Usage: I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.
"HELPS Word-studies
1080 gennáō – properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, "begotten."" [end quotes; underlining mine]
--context: Acts 13:29-37 - "29 And when they had finished all the things having been written about Him, having taken Him down from the tree, they put Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him out from the dead, 31 who appeared for many days to those having come up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now His witnesses to the people.
32 And we preach the gospel to you, the promise having been made to the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also it has been written in the second psalm:
‘You are My Son,
today I have begotten you.’a
34 And that He raised Him out from the dead, no more being about to return to decay, He spoke thus:
‘I will give to you the holy and sure blessings of David.’b
35 Therefore He also says in another:
‘You will not allow your Holy One to see decay.’c
36 For indeed David, having served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was added to his fathers, and saw decay. 37 But the One God raised up did not see decay.
...in view of the above info, was "Today" (Acts 13:33) referring to:
--when He was conceived from the Spirit (Matt1:20 - https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/1-20.htm )?
--when He was born in Bethlehem (Lk2:11)?
--when He was raised from the dead/ascended to Heaven/exalted (Jn20:17, etc)?
Just wondering how you see this.
Thank you for your question. Indeed this is a topic which is very deep, especially as it involves two realms: the physical and spiritual.
In the book of Hebrews we find some very interesting passages of Truth, which do not fit neatly into our modern theology and understanding of the Godhead. Beginning with Chapter 1 -
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
- Heb 1:1-9
Man, there's a lot here. Jesus was chosen "above His fellows"?
And although the worlds (plural) were "made through Him" (as the Word), God had to "appoint Him heir of all things" (see also Romans 8:17, to seemingly add to the confusion.) As well, "God made Him (Jesus) both Lord and Christ" because of His obedience to the One who is "greater than He."
I'd love to sit & chat in person with some on this site, pray, open our Bibles, invite the Holy Spirit to teach us, and delve into the Word and fellowship: as I do with others here & SoCal, and as opportunity arises when I'm on the road.
One thing I am gaining understanding on is that when Jesus walked from the tomb that Resurrection morning, He was something that He had not been before, and that even God is not... the "firstborn of creation"; now an immortal "flesh & bone" human, fully divine.
I believe this is when Christ Jesus was fully "begotten of the Father."
There is a convergence of the realms coming. Jesus will have "brothers" made "in His image" who will come forth "as He is" in that Day, and will be His "co-heirs" of "all things."
These the are things I think about constantly, as the Spirit of God speaks to me concerning His great plan and purpose.
This that I've shared here is only the frost on the tip of the iceberg.
Peace & Blessings, Wisdom & Understanding to you, and all who walk with Jesus.
Amen. The "works" of the Law of Moses could not save.
Just as in the wilderness, after God had "saved" His people from bondage in Egypt (apart from any works, other than having to sacrifice a "lamb for a house" and sprinkle the blood on the doorposts), His commands were given that they might receive the promise of inheritance in the Promised Land... so too, we who have been "saved" from bondage to sin (apart from any works we have done, other than receive the atoning blood of the Lamb of God), we now must "walk according to the Spirit" in obedience to God's commands given through Christ Jesus if we are to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
Been covering this fairly in-depth at our church Bible Study as I've been teaching on 1 Corinthians 10 (Our Journey)
Peace & Blessings to you.
The Law of Works had to be FULFILLED.
Yeshua/Jesus came to FULFILL the Law of Works for us; AND
to FULFILL the Penalty of Death for us because we are NOT able to fulfill the works of the Law - with His Blood we are forgiven and with His Body, we have fulfilled the works of the Law.
I hope this correction is heeded by you, but if not, at least others that may be swayed by your error about the Trinity will see the truth.It always boils down to this.
I believe what the Word declares. Nothing more; nothing less.
The Trinity doctrine states -
'The Trinity: our one God is eternally existent in three Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal.'
When taking in the whole of Scripture we find that such a doctrine will not stand. Indeed we have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they are not 'co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal.
Jesus made this irrefutable when He declared - "My Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)
The Father/Son relationship is clearly defined in 1Cor 15:27-28 which states -
"For “He (God) has put all things under His (Jesus) feet.” But when He (God) says “all things are put under Him (Jesus),” it is evident that He (God) who put all things under Him (Jesus) is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him (Jesus the Son), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him (God the Father) who put all things under Him (Jesus), that God (the Father) may be all in all."
And may we not forget the words of our Lord and Savior to Mary the day that the Father raised Him from the dead -
"Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” - John 20:17
The Father, Yahweh, is the God of Jesus. Jesus is our Lord and Messiah because He obeyed God fully -
"For it was fitting for Him (God), for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Captain (Jesus) of their salvation perfect through sufferings." - Heb 2:10
and...
"though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." - Heb 5:8-9
therefore because of the Sons perfect obedience to the Father, even to death -
“ let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” - Acts 2:36
Because Jesus set aside His own will in the garden (which was different from the Fathers), and obeyed God perfectly, He received from Almighty God all authority in the heavens and on earth and the right to sit down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. (see Heb 1:3, 8:1)
He was given authority from the Ancient of Days - Dan 7:14
"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me." - Matt 28:18
If Jesus is God, or equal to God, then why would He need someone to GIVE Him authority?
Friends, there is much taught today which cannot stand the test of Scripture. May we not taken as truth all we hear preached for the pulpits, but let us be as the Bereans who -
"received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." - Acts 17:11
79 times in the Gospels Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man
5 times He refers to Himself as the Son of God
47 times He is called by others the "Son of God", or "God's Son"
5 times He is referred to as the Son begotten of God, or begotten of the Father
4 times God, Himself, speaks from heaven and declares Jesus to be His Son
0 times does Jesus refer to Himself as God
Dear saints we are called to be one with Jesus as He is with the Father. When we take Jesus' statement in John 10:30 along with His discourse in John 17, then for us to say the Jesus is equal to the Father we would also have to say the we are equal to Jesus. Which we are not. We are His body, be He will always be greater than we, just as God will always be greater than Jesus.
We can see that clearly as Jesus prayed to His Father -
"that they (His disciples) all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." - John 17:21-23
Amen.
God's wisdom and understanding to all,
Michael
ALL 3 members of the Trinity were Present and separate from each other in THIS passage:
Matthew 3
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mr. Biggs, you better re-evaluate this post of yours:
"When taking in the whole of Scripture we find that such a doctrine will not stand. Indeed we have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they are not 'co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal."
The "works" of the Law of Moses are not the same as the "works" by which Jesus will judge and reward us in that Day. That seems to be a great point of confusion among most modern era church-goers.
Many will dismiss or ignore that great many passages that specifically tell us that God will judge, and recompense us all, especially 'Christians', "according to our works, our behavior and obedience when He returns. Our Eternal lot will depend on, not what we claim to believe, but on what we actually DID in this life with what God gave us.
Again, we are not talking about "being saved." That has already been done for most of us here on this forum. BUT, to inherit the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3, or even to "enter into the Kingdom", we must have proven ourselves by our "works."
My own prayer is that the churches teach the whole Truth of the Gospel.... for indeed friends, God determines whether we are a True Christian by what we do (our choices, our deeds, our actions), not by what we say we believe in. Never does God judge or reward anyone by their doctrine or statement of faith. He judges and rewards all men according to our works. (see Psalm 62:12, Prov 24:12, Jer 17:10, Jer 32:19, Eze 33:20, Lam 3:64, Matt 16:27, John 5:29, Rom 2:6, Rom 14:12, 2 Cor 5:10, 1Pet 1:17, Rev 20:12, and Rev 22:12 for starters)
These are far too many passages to be ignored. And knowing that zero books of the Bible are written to the world, we realize that God words of promise and warning are only to the churches, to those who have been "saved."
And, as God "has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness", we have no excuse to claim that we cannot keep the whole of God's commandments given directly to us through Christ Jesus.
In fact, if we do NOT add these virtues to our faith, and continue living by our carnal nature at all, we will "not inherit the Kingdom", as Paul states in several of his letters to the church-goers.
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
Along with Paul's exhortation and statement of his goal in Phil 3:7-15, I often bring up this portion of Gospel Truth from Peter's letter, when encouraging pastors to aside modern church traditions and see the Word for what it actually says -
"To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
- 2Pet 1:1-11
There are a few "ifs" in the Apostles letter to those who have obtained that "precious faith."
So... as an old time pastor friend of mine entitled one of his many books, "But What If We Don't?", indeed, what happens to those who have received "all things that pertain to Life and Godliness" but don't apply them and "add to their faith" the things commanded by the Apostle? And we can see from list, that these characteristics we must add are only proven by what we DO, by our "works."
These are the "works" required of we are to inherit the promises of Rev 2 & 3 given only to "those who overcome." These are not the "works" of the Law of Moses; those ordinances and regulations which were a "tutor to bring us to Christ." And as well, by the time the Apostles were writing, and even when Jesus was teaching, the Jewish leaders had added many other rules to their religious Law, such as the Talmud and Mishnah. Indeed keeping those "laws" no one could do, and instead of bring people closer to God, only drove them away.
And lastly, for now... the Bible actually mentions several individuals, including Paul and John the Baptists parents who did "keep the Law blamelessly." (Luke 1:6, Phil 3:6) And God counted many people "righteous" throughout the Old Testament.
Truly our modern understanding of Salvation, Righteousness, and Repentance is quite foreign to the canon of Scripture.
God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.
Sorry sir, I WILL NOT compromise my understanding of the Truth for you or any mere mortal.
I stand by every statement I have made. And I've been teaching this for many years now, as an elder, deacon and Bible teacher in churches, at retreats, Bible Studies and home fellowships.
God warned me, just as Jesus warned His disciples, that many, if not most, would reject His Word and embrace the "traditions of man", rather than for one minute believe they will be held accountable for their sins in that Day.
But God will have His remnant.
The Holy Spirit is the best teacher the world has ever been given with regards to learning and understanding Scripture. That is unequivocally indisputable.
Amen. His teaching and guidance has led me to the place in Christ I am today; and ever growing in understanding as the Lord continues to unveil God's great plan and purpose.
We are entering the Feast of Trumpets. The alarm is sounding. Can we hear?
And rewards are not the same as gifts.
Yikes! So much fake phony friendliness shoved in this guys' posts to HIDE the deception and false doctrine. Just like the mormons, deceptively smiling.
Lets try to unpack just a FEW of the falsehoods in this post:
You start off by using the OH SO COMMON argument that "not of works means not by works of the law (of Moses), but it doesn't mean the commandments of Jesus". The whole premise is just saying "You aint saved by these works, but by those works" which is absolutely ridicilous and is refuted by Titus 3:5 which just mentions all our righteous deeds, so if its a righteous deed, YOU BEST BELIEVE it aint saving you!
Then you mention that ZERO of the books of the Bible are written to the world, WHAT ABOUT the Gospel of John? Where it states that THESE ARE WRITTEN so that you may BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of God and by BELIEVING have life? Sounds like something unbelievers need to get a hold of, not believers? OH WELL. There is also that word believe there in order to have life. Hmm.
You list a bunch of works verses which I cosign all of them AMEN. I view them as DESCRIPTIVE of a BORN AGAIN individual, not a laundry list of works to do to get saved! But a result of God's Spirit residing in us, sanctifying us, God's love being poured into our hearts.
Look man you are leaving God out the PICTURE completely and just giving us a list of commandments and saying DO IT. Thats exactly what the mosaic covenant was all about. That covenant is DONE.
You CANNOT be born again by your will just choosing to start obeying Jesus' commands and go on thinking God is now all gassed up in heaven about your performance. God is the one who gives EVERYTHING to His people, without Him we cant do nothing. Only reason I could do 400 burpees yesterday was because GOD woke me up in the morning. Thats whats up! The only reason I could type this message was because GOD
I FORBID YOU from preaching this salvation by works on this forum. Repent and believe the Gospel. (THE REAL GOSPEL). Nothing wrong with obedience, something wrong with trying to "earn" salvation though!
Hmmm..... Methinks I've hit a nerve!
No phony niceties, no refutation whatsoever of the point that ALL 3 members of the Trinity were Present, AND separate at the same time, and no long winded baloney.
You keep right believing YOUR teaching. But make no mistake. It is just that, YOURS, and NOT the Lords.
Once a wolf gets injured it whines. Remember that! An immature Christian will run to its aid feeling sorry for the wolf. But a mature Christian will know to say "step back" ............
Wolf representing a false prophet fake preacher in this story, in sheep's clothing. Putting up a front of friendliness that will slowly peel off to reveal the true character, who gets injured after confronted with the truth!
Phrases to look out for:
"We all love Jesus dont we?"
"Lets just get along, Jesus said you should be known by your love for each other"
"Dont let doctrine divide us"
"It doesnt matter what you believe on X,Y,Z subject, just believe in Jesus"
"You are so unloving"
and a ton more! Thats how they sneak in to take over churches!
WOW! Such anger. Very sad.
If you truly read anything I've shared, you'd know that I do not teach that we need to 'earn salvation' by any works. I've never stated that a single time. So please know what you are talking about before you respond next time.
What the Bible clearly does declare, and the Lord God has commissioned me to teach, is that to receive the promises of God in Rev 2 & 3, we MUST truly "Repent" and "Walk Worthy." Period there is no debate on this. It's Bible through and through.
Sadly the false 'faith and prosperity' message has reemerged in the assemblies, and the majority have been swept up in it. So many believe they will hear "well done good and faithful servant" in that Day, when they have not "done well." The false preacher-men behind the pulpits tell them weekly that 'Jesus did it all for them', and H loves them just as they are. I stand against such heresy.
The "strong delusion" sent by God is thick upon the church at large today that "preaches" a false Gospel of 'believe and receive.'
I recall the Apostles were forbidden as well to teach the Truth, and said, as I say now... " I must obey God rather than man."
To enlighten you... John 3:16 wasn't spoken to the crowds, but only to a Pharisee. And John in chapter 6, and especially 13-17 Jesus is speaking ONLY to "disciples." And of course Jesus' command to "Repent" in Rev 2 & 3, is given directly to the churches, not the world.
And regarding "righteousness", again, according to the Bible, God views us as "righteous" if we do "righteous deeds."
"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." - 1John 3:4-7
This Truth is not for all. But God will have His remnant.
Amen.
Sorry yoda! I forgot anger was the way to the darkside!WOW! Such anger. Very sad.
I gotta watch it now!
No. no nerve.
I know who I am dealing with, and it's not really you. The battle may be played out through you and a few others on here, but the True battle is with the enemy in the heavens. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the lords of this age, rulers of this darkness, against spiritual wickedness in the heavens." - Eph 6:12
May you break free from their control over your lives and emotions and "take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." - Eph 6:13
You can be saved yet remain outside the kingdom and have no part with Christ in His inheritance?
How does that work?
Revelation 22:14-15
Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Are you saying that there are saved souls outside with the lot described here? How do you call that "saved"?
God is not the author of confusion. So how is it folks here who believe in Jesus and are guided by the Holy Spirit deem your teachings heretical?
Oh I didn't take offense.
I just think we could all be a little more polite and considerate.. Though I know some are incapable of that.
