Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

Wrong....the gift is free based upon grace through faith, the inheritance is subject to faithfulness, crowns are given for particular deeds or actions and the promise of eternal life is based upon Christ, his work, his faith.....you must not actually study or regurgitate what someone spoon fed you.....

Ditto.

So, what IS the inheritance?

Did he tell you to lie about being banned and come back while breaking the rules of this site while peddling obedience...

and sarcasm, mockery and very pointed comments at false dogmas are biblical....Jesus, John, Elijah etc....all done it...the use of it does not determine my saved state and or level of biblical maturity...!!!

I've told you this before D,,,
You are NOT Jesus, John or Elijah.

Please find a different, more Christian method of addressing persons.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Faith alone is dead and cannot save.
Wow.
If faith cannot save and is dead then no need for faith.
Then we do not need faith to save but works to be saved.
Is that what you are saying?

We have a problem here in use of language. Faith alone is believing in ideas without a change within.
The cornerstone of our faith, is we become Children of God, saints while before being sinners.

Peter described himself like this

"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
Acts 10:14

Paul described himself like this

in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
Phil 3:5-6

These guys followed God to a degree we would barely recognise and call legalism.
To them faith meant obedience, and not obeying would be a denial of the faith.

It was revolutionary when God declared love fulfils the law. It is love flowing through our hearts because of
Gods healing, His Holy Spirit, His life that invades our very souls, means we walk in His ways, not choosing so
much as being.

Let me put this in context. I know many women, who are vulnerable and I could exploit. But I love them as
a father, as a brother, as a member of Gods people, and desire that they know Gods love and care.
With spiritual reality, I can pray for them and encourage them in things that are wholesome, loving and
encouraging, to be a help in times of great difficulty.

Love transcends our humanity, it overwhelms it, and brings the eternal into focus through the cross.
When our hearts are cleansed and we can dwell in peace with Jesus, we begin to see people as they really
are, and know what to share and help them with. God bless you.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I think that we have a differnt point of entry on obedience and good deeds.

The problem is not with the point of entry....
The problem is what comes after....

We agree on the point of entry. No one enters God's grace by works. If our works are to have any value at all, we must first be born form above and be trusting in God for our salvation. Only faith in Jesus could make us be saved both on this earth and in the afterlife.

Where the problem starts is after salvation. Many on this thread believe that everything God gives us is irrevocable and eternal. This is not true. Irrevocable pertains to God's gifts and HIS calling and how He calls. It does not mean that his gift of faith cannot be revoked....it is revoked when we decide we no longer wish to serve God.

And if we DO want to serve Him,,,it has to be on HIS terms, not on our terms.

When I was a child I sometimes obeyed my parents freely because I loved them, other times so I would not be punished and yet other times to gain something, and a million other variations.....e vero?

However, from the way I read some, not all of your posts obeying is for salvation, I am saying that obeying is a result of salvation we want to do what pleases Him.

The obeying is part of the relationship that exists, because I loved my parents and my parents loved me I strove to obey, I did not strive to obey to gain the relationship. We would consider these terrible parents why would we see God this way.

Sure. What you say e' vero. It is true. We like to compare God to a human because He is so far above us that we sometimes use this analogy. However, when one reaches the level of theology that we have here, this analogy should disappear....why? Because God is not like US, and we are not like GOD. In some ways,,,,but the comparison becomes ridiculous. We can use it to make a point but it cannot be taken literally.

Your analogy is somewhat true...but listen to this:
You obeyed them because you loved them.
But you also HAD to obey them, or they'd punish you, as you said...
This is also true of God,,,,but not in a literals sense...I've always used the example of smoking...if I smoke, I might get lung cancer. God didn't give it to me...but it's a RESULT of not treating my body like a temple.

But now you grow up. And you really give your parents a lot of grief. Didn't you ever hear of grown adult children that were banished from the home? That lost their inheritance due to the relationship they had with the parents?

This happens all the time.




When I obeyed my parents it was because I knew it was to protect me from harm, I think it is the same with God, we still have a will and we can disobey, He still loves us ....He does not make us unjustified but He can chasten us and sometimes even remove us from this earth.

Sinning will not get you banned from your salvation...even John said we will sin.
A life of sin...a life of disobedience WILL get you unjustified....you're either on your way to sanctification....or your on your way to being lost by going toward satan instead of toward God.
There's no middle ground in Christianity....
You're either saved or lost.
If we're to be saved, we must obey....Jesus said so...I'm not posting scripture for the upteenth time,,,I have to leave soon.

Our point of entry and reason is the worthy walk, not for salvation, that is done...Paul talks on this.

"that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him" (Colossians 1:9-10).

How can we please Him if what we do is not from a place of freedom?

Do we serve a task master.....No..... we serve a God who tells over and over He is Love.
Of course it's from a place of freedom ! We can choose to obey or not obey.
By you're saying that obedience does not save us or keep us saved...what you're really saying is that obedience is not necessary !

And how else to please God except by obeying Him?
Colossians says we are to walk worthy of the Lord....easy.

See. You say something but the verses you post do not support your idea because the idea is faulty.
Gotta go.
Arrivederci

click to expand

 

[gb9]

yes, we do have a problem with language.

the words " believe " and " obey " are not the same, even though fran and some others think so.

the definition of sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so, whatever is not of faith is sin.


followhissteps ( not sure who he is following, not Jesus) does not recognize the definition of sin, though he lectures about it constantly.

we certainly do have a language and definition problem.
because the self-righteous and self saviors have to bend and twist and deny so they can prop up their self delusions of having to do their part to help God save them.

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus would not make a gospel saying that if we obey his words then we are in false 'works salvation'.

I have explained it. It was cultural for the times in that area.

Exactly, so why have you made His Gospel message and our response to it (obedience) salvation by works?

I read nothing in the passage that makes it a cultural rule, you will need to prove this from scripture because otherwise it is a rule still valid for today, and I could make a case that many other rules are not in effect today like homosexuality etc.,

 

[UnderGrace]

click to expand

We have given you all the verses many times over.

I think you missed the point, God cannot be likened to a dysfunctional parent bad parent, in essence those that teach a justified status

can be revoked based on the behaviour/sin have made salvation a system of quid pro quo.

You do realize this????

Your obedience is tied to external rules because your obedience is for salvation

I am obedient to Jesus within because my obedience is a result of salvation

The scripture is clear. Salvation is a gift presently available not to be earned in any way, to teach it can be earned is a complete mockery of what God has done for us.

…3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…


Open your mind Fran we preach Truth, absolute, complete Truth, and by denying this truth you miss a deeper stronger relationship with your loving Father.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

yes, we do have a problem with language.
the words " believe " and " obey " are not the same, even though fran and some others think so.
the definition of sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so, whatever is not of faith is sin.
followhissteps ( not sure who he is following, not Jesus) does not recognize the definition of sin, though he lectures about it constantly.
we certainly do have a language and definition problem.
because the self-righteous and self saviors have to bend and twist and deny so they can prop up their self delusions of having to do their part to help God save them.

Missing the mark is defined by God, it is Gods mark.
Condemners will make sure you condemn yourself.

Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.
James 4:17

James is saying knowing Gods ways is not enough we have to walk in them or we are sinning.

But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin
Rom 14:23

Paul is addressing eating food sacrificed to idols. He is distinguishing between those who eat
with a clear conscience and those who eat despite their conscience condemning them.
He is saying our conscience should guide us, and we should work through this to know if our
faith encourages us to behave one way or another and follow this, or it is sinful

If people want to live in self condemnation and not walk in grace that is their conscience.
These preachers hate the idea of walking like Jesus, which they believe is impossible, so
Paul is lying by their doctrine

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 11:1

For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example
2 Thess 3:7

Unfortunately these blind condemners only know their own failure and wish to condemn others
in the unbelief in the cross and the Holy Spirit to transform us, and that we can actually love
from the heart in forgiveness and faith, Halleluyah. Praise God He has brought us into the Holy
of Hollies that now dwells in our cleansed purified hearts as we draw close to God in our new
lives in Christ, Amen.

 

[Hevosmies]

@YourTruthGod You said God cleanses us of sins we repented of (stopped doing).

I got a question: What about the ones you havent repented of? And then you die, is it frying time?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We have given you all the verses many times over.

I think you missed the point, God cannot be likened to a dysfunctional parent bad parent, in essence those that teach a justified status

can be revoked based on the behaviour/sin have made salvation a system of quid pro quo.

You do realize this????

Your obedience is tied to external rules because your obedience is for salvation

I am obedient to Jesus within because my obedience is a result of salvation

The scripture is clear. Salvation is a gift presently available not to be earned in any way, to teach it can be earned is a complete mockery of what God has done for us.

…3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…


Open your mind Fran we preach Truth, absolute, complete Truth, and by denying this truth you miss a deeper stronger relationship with your loving Father.

"Your obedience is tied to external rules because your obedience is for salvation"

As far as I read my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I myself, our walk is the affirmation of our
faith and our salvation. It is like saying you can feel our heart beat so you know we are alive.
No heart beat, we are dead.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

@YourTruthGod You said God cleanses us of sins we repented of (stopped doing).

I got a question: What about the ones you havent repented of? And then you die, is it frying time?

This is a good question. God says that we should confess all the sins we know of.
As He brings light to our lives, and we walk with Him, problems and issues we need to work through.
Some issues are structural and take time and perseverance, not sin but things that lead that way.

It has always been about focus, our focus of Him and love with service or on our failure and troubles.
This tension will always be present, yet we are being transformed. Do you not feel this in your life
and walk with Him?

 

[Hevosmies]

This is a good question. God says that we should confess all the sins we know of.
As He brings light to our lives, and we walk with Him, problems and issues we need to work through.
Some issues are structural and take time and perseverance, not sin but things that lead that way.

It has always been about focus, our focus of Him and love with service or on our failure and troubles.
This tension will always be present, yet we are being transformed. Do you not feel this in your life
and walk with Him?

Rabbit trail and evasion! You didnt answer my question.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Rabbit trail and evasion! You didnt answer my question.

Hevosmies, only the Lord knows.
In the temple God says this

'If the whole Israelite community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands, even though the community is unaware of the matter, they are guilty.
When they become aware of the sin they committed, the assembly must bring a young bull as a sin offering and present it before the Tent of Meeting.
The elders of the community are to lay their hands on the bull's head before the LORD, and the bull shall be slaughtered before the LORD.
Lev 4:13-15

There are questions we do not have answers to because God does not provide them.
It is why we live in trust and love, rather than sight and confidence.

So unfortunately this is not evasion, it is just how the Lord is, the creator of the Universe.

We are mere servants learning His ways. It has taken me time to realise He desires us to
follow in a particular way because that is the only way we can gain sight and start to live
as we should. Anything more and we would stray and easily go wrong.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Grace covers much of the Lords people, it has never been the legalists view of our walk,
rather we walk in honesty, integrity and openness, and love rules our hearts.

As we grow things get resolved, and what we once did disappears, it is how the potter moulds
us while we do not notice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is not in the Bible, it is what false teachers say like a mantra.

Wow. So the DEFENITION of a word means nothing?

The reward is eternal life with God. Do you not know the scriptures?

The wage of sin is death, the GIFT OF GOD is ETERNAL LIFE.

Who is it that does not kn ow the scripture?

Why do you think you can earn eternal life. What is so great about you? The bible says our works are as filthy rags (literally bloody rags) do you think God will accept your bloody rags as payment for sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe in faith in Jesus and obeying him.

If you wan't to shame people and try to degrade it as a false gospel, then that is a shame.

Your the one pedding a false gospel my friend. Your rejecting grace, and trying to add works.

Not of works. Lest anyone should boast. You will not boast in front of God.. nore will you earn eternal life..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus has to accept us.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

God HAS TOO?

Wow man, WHO made you God

God has to CONDEMN us, because that is what we have EARNED!!

God does not owe you anything my friend.. You need to come down from your high horse.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The debt is our cleaning ourselves. No one cleans themselves anymore.

We still have to obey God; we just don't have to get circumcised in the flesh and sacrifice animals anymore.

No one can clean themselves. If we could Jesus died in vein! It was meaningless

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Gandalf tiptoe into minefield… Gandalf tiptoe out of minefield.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is your misunderstanding.

I think you are quite understandable..
You think you have to EARN eternal life. Thats all we need to know

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reward, the inheritance, the treasure, the crown, the promise…it is all eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Not of works lest anyone should BOAST.

The GIFT of God is eternal life
You should recognize these two words of God quite well. They contradict what you believe.