Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Some soil is naturally good.

not according to the bible. That is why no one can come to Jesus unless it is given to them by the Father and they are drawn. Anything that denies this is semi Pelagianism or Pelagianism.

 

[ThomasCane]

Please listen to the first 34 seconds of this music video and let me know if you think this reminds you of dcontroversal.

Rotting Christ - The Heretics - (Full album 2019)

 

[Macabeus]

Macabeus you are obsessed about this topic almost lol

You have been going on and on about that for numerous pages now.

Why is this particualr issue so important to you? Have you considered starting a garden? May I suggest apple trees, they can grow even in climates with a long winter like where im from.
Just make sure you dont eat any fruit that falls on the ground. It can have epidemic nephropathy ! It comes from rodents who have it.

Because I was repeatedly called a liar, a deceiver, and scripture twister by liars, deceivers, and scripture twisters.

DC said that it takes years of growth and maturity to bear fruit

EG and GB9 agreed by saying, yes DC is right, "it may take years"

Do you see a difference? apparently, they're not educated in grammar

moving the goalposts from a necessary condition to a contingency. That is goal post shifting.

I could care less about their corrupt doctrine about fruit

anyone with any knowledge in Bible handling knows that you do not make a parable walk on all fours.

You do not take natural fruit bearing of a tree taking however long, and then apply that to what Jesus was saying and then say "see, this proves it takes years to bear fruit". That was never Jesus' intent

You do not say to someone who is replying to someone who said "it takes years to bear fruit" and say, "why are you so obsessed with how long it takes to bear fruit", when that person never said how long it takes to bear fruit. DC said how long it takes, not me.

I believe a believer can bear fruit from day one. Colossians 1:5-7

GB9 replies to that and says basically "not always". Shifting the goalposts again from a necessary condtion to a possible condition based on contingency. Goal post shifting. etc.

 

[stonesoffire]

if you believe in OSAS please read the following

final salvation is not guaranteed by an initial experience of saving faith and grace, this is clearly shown in Rom. 13:11, where we read, "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."

Believing brings temporal salvation. Continuing to believe insures final salvation.

In I Pet. 1:5, 9, and 13, the writer speaks of a salvation which is not a present possession of
believers here and now:

"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time... Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls . . .
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be
brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Paul speaks of his labors to insure the continuance of his numerous charges:

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with Eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: if we
suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" (II Tim. 2:10-12).

Final salvation, "the end of your faith" (I Per. 1:9), is "when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (I Pet. 5:4).

The promises of final salvation are to the overcomer:

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his
name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels" (Rev.
3:5).

if anyone might have presumed that his present salvation inevitably guaranteed his final salvation, it would have been the Apostle Paul.

But notice what Paul said I Cor. 9:27, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." adokimos

Those of you who teach false security must have difficulty with this verse!

Please notice that Paul uses the very same word here translated "castaway" (adokimos) Rom. 1:28, where it is translated "reprobate"; adokimos

II Cor. 13:5, "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates"; adokimos


II Tim. 3:8, where he speaks of false prophets as "men of corrupt
minds, reprobate concerning the faith"; adokimos

Titus 1:16, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate"? adokimos

In each case the word denotes those who are lost.

I know it is convenient to ignore the otherwise accepted usage of a word, and blithely say it means much less. But at least I can say that I tried

will there be reprobates in heaven?

 

[Macabeus]

Macabeus you are obsessed about this topic almost lol

You have been going on and on about that for numerous pages now.

Why is this particualr issue so important to you? Have you considered starting a garden? May I suggest apple trees, they can grow even in climates with a long winter like where im from.
Just make sure you dont eat any fruit that falls on the ground. It can have epidemic nephropathy ! It comes from rodents who have it.

I was called a liar by three men. DC ,Eternally gratefull, and GB9

But their arguments are fallacious. ALL OF THEM

Just for one example, goal post shifting. Compare the two quotes below.

It takes years to bear fruit (necessary condition) what DC said

It may take years to bear fruit (uncertain condition based on contingency. What Eternally Grateful and GB9 said DC said.

GOAL SHIFTING. If anyone can't see it, they need a grade school grammar refresher

and he liked their misquotes of him.

Just read the posts. They shift goalposts, make parables and metaphors walk on all fours, etc.

DO you not see the difference between these two statements above?

This is just one evidence of many that they are highly fallacious in their reasoning.

IF this is not evident to anyone, then you are blinded and wearing rose colored glasses.

I think I said enough to make my point, to anyone who can read with understanding.

 

[stonesoffire]

Accidental posting of Goodnewsmans post. Was looking up scriptures . lol

Will say this though. It was immortality that Paul was looking to win.

 

[Macabeus]

Just know that DC, eternally Grateful, and GB9 are either highly dishonest or highly fallacious in their thought processes. Read all the posts and you'll see.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Hevosmies]

Can't write too much now.
Did you read that long post I wrote you?
What do you think love is?
What does love your enemy mean?

for me love my enemy would mean not cuss them in my mind and not feel like KOing them lol

Yes i did read your message, i appreciated it. surprisingly encouraging tbh

 

[Hevosmies]

Guys check this out. proof of eternal security 100% irrefutable:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I highlighted the word "I know them" because Jesus KNOWS the sheep. Now this proves sheep will always be sheep:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There Jesus casts folks into hell and He NEVER knew them, not used to know them.

Did anyone see it like I did?

 

[dcontroversal]

anybody with one eyeball and half a brain can look at post #86,273 and see that i never used "my words"......just the bible and a dictionary and all i did was copy and paste

do you get this mad at the mailman when he delivers you a letter, bill, or a court order you didn't want to receive? calm down friend, i just delivered the mail, i didn't write it!

You delivered nothing but opinion....bias and corrupt at that......keep slicing and dicing....it changes nothing.....!!
Paul was not worried about losing salvation.........get it through your head......he was worried about being disqualified from the ministry and Apostleship.........

New Living Translation
I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

English Standard Version
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Berean Study Bible
No, I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Berean Literal Bible
But I batter my body and bring it into servitude, lest having preached to others, I myself might be disqualified.

New American Standard Bible
but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

King James Bible
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Christian Standard Bible
Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Good News Translation
I harden my body with blows and bring it under complete control, to keep myself from being disqualified after having called others to the contest.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

International Standard Version
No, I keep on disciplining my body, making it serve me so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified.

NET Bible
Instead I subdue my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself will not be disqualified.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But I subdue my body and I enslave it, lest I who have preached to others would be disqualified myself.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Rather, I toughen my body with punches and make it my slave so that I will not be disqualified after I have spread the Good News to others.

New American Standard 1977
but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

 

[dcontroversal]

Guys check this out. proof of eternal security 100% irrefutable:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I highlighted the word "I know them" because Jesus KNOWS the sheep. Now this proves sheep will always be sheep:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There Jesus casts folks into hell and He NEVER knew them, not used to know them.

Did anyone see it like I did?

We all have and have addressed it numerous times....Fran states they were saved and lost it......as do numerous others that believe salvation can be lost like a poker hand with a pair of deuces.....

 

[Argueless]

...And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13

OSAS group here teaches that FAITH ALONE saves which means that fhey do not need to HOPE anymore for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Faith without HOPE is not FAITH.

...Now faith is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of WHAT WE DO NOT SEE. Hebrews 11:1

What will those who are ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED still hope for if they already have or possess what they are supposed to be hoping for or should be waiting for patiently?

OSAS do not consider OBEDIENCE TO GOD as part of SALVATION but just a part of ĹOVE.

Does rejecting OBEDIENCE TO GOD as a part of SALVATION not tantamount to rejecting LOVE as part of SALVATION?

Does OSAS not reject LOVE as being part of SALVATION by insisting that FAITH ALONE saves?...NO HOPE...NO LOVE...but FAITH ALONE saves?

...FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:24-25

Praise to God for a Living Hope ...Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 1 Peter 1:3-25

If anyone DOES NOT LOVE GOD, he will not OBEY His commands. He who does not OBEY GOD rebels against Him and becomes His ENEMIES as it was when lucifer and his troop rebelled against God and just as it is written; "God's wrath comes on those who are DISOBEDIENT." Ephesians 5:6

Brother...the bible is clear.........I am not saying that saved people who are weak, immature or maybe struggling do not have moments of question or even doubt...THOMAS doubted.....the point was, we can KNOW we are saved and the HOPE set forth by the bible = a confident expectation of something guaranteed...........SALVATION is GUARANTEED to those who have trusted into the saving faith of CHRIST....!!

You know......these guys that peddle a losable salvation constantly pit the bible against itself.....

One will say the free gift of eternal salvation can be lost or forfeit yet the bible states...

THE gifts and calling of GOD is IRREVOCABLE

THEY will say we can LOSE faith and become LOST yet the bible states...

GOD deals faith to men in measure and JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in us.

THEY will say JESUS paid our sin debt but if we sin we will lose salvation yet the bible states

WHERE sin abounds grace abounds the more and God places out sins as far as the east is from the west and REMEMBERS THEM NO MORE

They say salvation can be forfeited like a ball game and yet the bible states....

WE are saved to the uttermost and KEPT by the power of GOD through the above FAITH

They say JESUS will cast us way lost and yet the bible states...

I will never leave thee or forsake thee

and on and on and on and on..............

THEY conflate, twist, deny, misapply and flat refuse to be honest with context, verb tense, word definitions all while devaluing Christ, his blood, his sacrifice, his power, and his ability to do what he states clearly he will do....it makes me sick...........

 

[UnderGrace]

not according to the bible. That is why no one can come to Jesus unless it is given to them by the Father and they are drawn. Anything that denies this is semi Pelagianism or Pelagianism.

Sorry, not connected to the good soil.

Also not Pelagianism that quite a s ......t....r.....e.....t.....c........h

 

[UnderGrace]

Guys check this out. proof of eternal security 100% irrefutable:


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I highlighted the word "I know them" because Jesus KNOWS the sheep. Now this proves sheep will always be sheep:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There Jesus casts folks into hell and He NEVER knew them, not used to know them.

Did anyone see it like I did?

Yes, but there is no mention of hell

 

[UnderGrace]

Just like UG, you didn't understand my point.
Maybe it's not worded correctly...
Maybe you two just love to argue.
I'm on a phone now....can't write too much.

I really do not like to argue, but I do not see any truth in that statement, maybe better you reword it.

 

[Budman]

Oh man what is so wrong with some people on this website.
You forfeit your righteousness by only believing for a while, don't blame God for it

Once again...

Tell me, how long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?

A second?

A minute?

An hour, a day, a week, a month?

And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?

If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?

Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?

If you are correct, then grace is not unmerited, and salvation is a gift with strings attached, which negates it as a gift entirely.

 

[Goodnewsman]

You delivered nothing but opinion....bias and corrupt at that......keep slicing and dicing....it changes nothing.....!!
Paul was not worried about losing salvation.........get it through your head......he was worried about being disqualified from the ministry and Apostleship.........

New Living Translation
I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

English Standard Version
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Berean Study Bible
No, I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Berean Literal Bible
But I batter my body and bring it into servitude, lest having preached to others, I myself might be disqualified.

New American Standard Bible
but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

King James Bible
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Christian Standard Bible
Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Good News Translation
I harden my body with blows and bring it under complete control, to keep myself from being disqualified after having called others to the contest.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

International Standard Version
No, I keep on disciplining my body, making it serve me so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified.

NET Bible
Instead I subdue my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself will not be disqualified.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But I subdue my body and I enslave it, lest I who have preached to others would be disqualified myself.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Rather, I toughen my body with punches and make it my slave so that I will not be disqualified after I have spread the Good News to others.

New American Standard 1977
but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

HAHAAAHAAHAA Since I didn't write the KJV bible nor did i write the Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon how could it be my bias, corrupt opinion?

again if you dont like the mail dont get mad at the mailman
is the kjv bible and strongs dictionary corrupt????

 

[UnderGrace]

Yup the perennial question .................still waiting too, they refuse to see the big black hole in their doctrine.

Waiting and waiting for that metric???

Here comes the quote from Hebrews again with the "wilful sin" verse.....

Once again...

Tell me, how long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?

A second?

A minute?

An hour, a day, a week, a month?

And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?

If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?

Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?

If you are correct, then grace is not unmerited, and salvation is a gift with strings attached, which negates it as a gift entirely.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Once again...

Tell me, how long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?

A second?

A minute?

An hour, a day, a week, a month?

And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?

If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?

Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?

If you are correct, then grace is not unmerited, and salvation is a gift with strings attached, which negates it as a gift entirely.

salvation isn't lost.....salvation is left......just as Jesus gave us the parable of the prodigal son

he chose to leave home, he made the choice to stay in the far country

he didn't lose his father, he left his father!!!

you really believe God will force you to love Him and serve Him?

 

[Goodnewsman]

Any doctrine which offers hope to the backslider that his salvation is assured apart from a personal repentance and return to the Lord is false security.