Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I completely agree with you, there is absolutely no need to read the greek to understand. I tend to think most(most) who do read it, are putting their reliance to learn somewhere other than it should be placed. And very few who quote it a lot seem to understand much about the message
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DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
God is my father from all eternity and this is why I choose to be obedient to his grace.
for a second there i thought by (5) you meant Jesus was the one not wearing a wedding garment!
where did the guests get their wedding garments?
they were poor, blind, lame beggars. they were taken directly off the street by the King's servants and brought to the household -- how did they come to be clothed in the proper attire?
so you didn't choose Him, if He was your Father from the beginning.
you were wrong; He chose you, not the other way around.
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DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
I never said I chose God; I said I chose to accept the grace God has given me.
There is where you are wrong....I get what I believe from the bible.....and no....what you peddle--->A losable salvation maintained by man is a Catholic thing that has been taken by all of her daughters and is peddled in pulpits world wide.....
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DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
When I chose to accept God's grace I was exercising my free-will to be obedient; God chose me by giving me the free grace.
I already explained this to you in post #85,711 and in other posts as well, but for some reason you just don’t get it.
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DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
And you do not know what you are talking about......for real...
"Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do what Abraham did."
(John 8:39)
(John 8:39)
is the sense here that a child of a father may or may not receive from their father, or that they definitely do as a matter of nature? He doesn't say, 'you might do the works of your father' -- He says, you do the works of your father.
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God.
The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
(John 8:47)
(John 8:47)
how could anyone receive grace that isn't already His?
But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
(John 10:26-28)
(John 10:26-28)
He doesn't seem to be talking about the difference between receiving His grace and not being a matter of an individual's choice.
Paul talks about it in terms of being 'redeeemed' -- which ((sorry, Greek again lol)) is a peculiar word that has reference to a slave having his freedom bought, in such a way that they can never be sold on the slave market again. that's not a choice that a slave makes for themselves.
in-arresting, ain't it?
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DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
It is impossible for us to have attained salvation without having recieved our new glorified body.
D
DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN
Guest
God chose us because he knew we would use our free-will to choose to cooperate with his grace."Abraham is our father," they answered. "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do what Abraham did."(John 8:39)
is the sense here that a child of a father may or may not receive from their father, or that they definitely do as a matter of nature? He doesn't say, 'you might do the works of your father' -- He says, you do the works of your father.
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.(John 8:47)
how could anyone receive grace that isn't already His?
But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:26-28)
He doesn't seem to be talking about the difference between receiving His grace and not being a matter of an individual's choice.
Paul talks about it in terms of being 'redeeemed' -- which ((sorry, Greek again lol)) is a peculiar word that has reference to a slave having his freedom bought, in such a way that they can never be sold on the slave market again. that's not a choice that a slave makes for themselves.
in-arresting, ain't it?
Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION? [/QUOTE]
Still waiting for the spiritual Guru to answer the following....
DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN said:
People choose to go to hell. They chose to lose God; God did not lose them.
@dcontroversal said:
Really........people choose to go to hell.....can you cite 2 sets of verses in context that states that verbatim...............
Does a baby just born choose to go to hell?
The wicked go astray from the womb!
DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN said:
People choose to go to hell. They chose to lose God; God did not lose them.
@dcontroversal said:
Really........people choose to go to hell.....can you cite 2 sets of verses in context that states that verbatim...............
Does a baby just born choose to go to hell?
The wicked go astray from the womb!