Not By Works

[Rosemaryx]

They must have entered the new covenant if they partook of the Holy Spirit.

Can you show me Scripture please of where it says the Holy Spirit entered them , those of disobedience , thank you...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Please do not take away , nor add to what our gracious LORD has done...

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

Just for the record, no one here is denying sanctification and christian growth, and how since god loved us, we should learn to emulate him, and in doing so, do the works we created us to do,

People will use the strawman we are immature, or hate obedience, or love our sin (many other accusations which are not true)

Our soul beef is against the thought that obedience is what saves us, making eternal life not a fift of God paid by the blood of christ, but a reward or wage earned by our hard work.

Ok, gotcha. This thread is about thinking that "doing works only" will save a person.

I didn't know any Christians thought that way, or I guess I don't know any who do. I thought only Jewish people who did not believe in Christ thought that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where in the world did you come up with that "so people can have faith, but not have faith" lol, I know that I have a hard time expressing what I am trying to say sometimes, but if I am that bad about it then I need to not be part of the conversations.

You need to be more specific of what I said for me to understand what you mean by this.

When Jesus come in His glory and sits on His glorious throne, all nations will be gathered, and Jesus will separated them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will put the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left.

To those on his right he says to them "Come you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty, when I was naked you clothed me and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

And they ask him when did we do these things. And Jesus tells them that if you did these to the least of the people, you did it to me.

And then he says to the ones on the left "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels because you did not feed the hungry, clothe those who were naked, give drink to the thirsty, you didn't visit the widows and the prisoners.

Are you saying that feeding the hungry, or giving clothes to those in need, visiting the widows, orphans, prisoners is not works because we might boast about doing them, so therefore not to do them?

Its simple

The ones on the right were adopted as gods children, and because they experienced gods love, they were able to do those works

The ones on the oher side, were never adopted, thus they never worked

But remember, even worldly people who hate god do good things, so this can not be a requirement of people to get saved, but again, it is a characteristic of those who are truly saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, gotcha. This thread is about thinking that "doing works only" will save a person.

I didn't know any Christians thought that way, or I guess I don't know any who do. I thought only Jewish people who did not believe in Christ thought that.

Hang around, you will see many people who think salvation is maintained by works, fail to work, and you can lose salvation.

They believe we were made in the spirit, but they sadly think we perfect it in the flesh,

 

[Argueless]

God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. Romans 2:1-11

 

[CharliRenee]

I want to say...

I appreciate this thread so much. Not all of it, lol, but much. I have more peace when I rely on His work and not mine. I finally think I understand why this discussion IS so important. I still ponder the warning scriptures but believe they are to help us examine our hearts and for discernment in general. Clearly, I'm still sketchy on that a bit. But I tell you what, it is so freeing leaning on Him rather than on my own ability to find understanding, looking like a deer in the headlights, fearful I might not persevere. Wrong!!! Jeremiah 32:40 should sooth my soul, not paralyze it.

He keeps us... He is our shepherd...period. Eternal security does not null works, just gives the Glory to who is doing the works. Salvation and sanctification are His alone!!! The Lord of Host secures us, not of ourselves.

Penn said something in his 101...

If we believe, we will obey.. yeah truth of the simplicity of the Gospel. It isn't if we produce, we truly believe. But that because we truly believe, His nature will produce works within us.

My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing, I will sing praises, even with my soul. Awake, harp and lyre; I will awaken the dawn! I will give thanks to You, O Lord , among the peoples, And I will sing praises to You among the nations. For Your lovingkindness is great above the heavens, And Your truth reaches to the skies. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens, And Your glory above all the earth. That Your beloved may be delivered, Save with Your right hand, and answer me!
Psalms 108:1‭-‬6 NASB

I will keep my Lord beside me, because He is at my right hand, I shall NOT be moved. Therefore, my heart is glad, my Glory (soul) rejoices, and my flesh also RESTS in hope.

I pray as I continue to understand the verses, that my heart burns as He explains the verses to me.

True faith given by His Grace produces and transforms. Not one bit of it, nothing, zip, though, is of our own doing. It is because He first loved us.

What eternally grateful said about harmony within the verses rings so true. Truly, when there is not, that only points to faulty interpretation, not contradiction within His word. I just think we need to REST in His salvation and that finding that harmony takes His Glory, not ours. Ours is to wait on His revealing, praying, trusting, and reading His word. I just feel more peace, stepping into His rest, rather than striving so much. Thank u.

I can not find peace on one hand and strive on the other. I can but that just brings inner turmoil.

God Bless you all and thank you!! To God be all the Glory.

 

[Argueless]

... All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. Romans 2:12-16

 

[Argueless]

...For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:8-21

 

[Argueless]

...Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Romans 13:10-14

 

[Rosemaryx]

I want to say...

I appreciate this thread so much. Not all of it, lol, but much. I have more peace when I rely on His work and not mine. I finally think I understand why this discussion IS so important. I still ponder the warning scriptures but believe they are to help us examine our hearts and for discernment in general. Clearly, I'm still sketchy on that a bit. But I tell you what, it is so freeing leaning on Him rather than on my own ability to find understanding, looking like a deer in the headlights, fearful I might not persevere. Wrong!!! Jeremiah 32:40 should sooth my soul, not paralyze it.

He keeps us... He is our shepherd...period. Eternal security does not null works, just gives the Glory to who is doing the works. Salvation and sanctification are His alone!!! The Lord of Host secures us, not of ourselves.

Penn said something in his 101...

If we believe, we will obey.. yeah truth of the simplicity of the Gospel. It isn't if we produce, we truly believe. But that because we truly believe, His nature will produce works within us.

My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing, I will sing praises, even with my soul. Awake, harp and lyre; I will awaken the dawn! I will give thanks to You, O Lord , among the peoples, And I will sing praises to You among the nations. For Your lovingkindness is great above the heavens, And Your truth reaches to the skies. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens, And Your glory above all the earth. That Your beloved may be delivered, Save with Your right hand, and answer me!
Psalms 108:1‭-‬6 NASB

I will keep my Lord beside me, because He is at my right hand, I shall NOT be moved. Therefore, my heart is glad, my Glory (soul) rejoices, and my flesh also RESTS in hope.

I pray as I continue to understand the verses, that my heart burns as He explains the verses to me.

True faith given by His Grace produces and transforms. Not one bit of it, nothing, zip, though, is of our own doing. It is because He first loved us.

What eternally grateful said about harmony within the verses rings so true. Truly, when there is not, that only points to faulty interpretation, not contradiction within His word. I just think we need to REST in His salvation and that finding that harmony takes His Glory, not ours. Ours is to wait on His revealing, praying, trusting, and reading His word. I just feel more peace, stepping into His rest, rather than striving so much. Thank u.

I can not find peace on one hand and strive on the other. I can but that just brings inner turmoil.

God Bless you all and thank you!! To God be all the Glory.

Your heart is rejoicing in the LORD , it is beautiful to hear...xox...

 

[PennEd]

You are ignoring Heb6:4-6 those mentioned shared in the Holy Spirit, you can only do that if you are saved.

None of you can answer the question can you

If you are justified/righteous apart from not commiting sin, how can what is written in heb6:4-6 happen?
Happy to change to that scripture for there is no doubt there as to people being saved or not is there

I have posted 101 reasons why we are eternally secure. NONE of them have been answered. I have showed you that Paul is talking to the unsaved that may have thought they were saved, and NOT the truly saved in Galatians, Corinthians, and elsewhere. You have now moved to one of the more difficult passages to understand, as if that negates the 101 and other explanations. Well, if you truly want to know, and are not simply into the "gotcha" game, spend 22 minutes watching this. I don't know much about this guy but he does a pretty darn good job going over this passage. Be Blessed!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I want to say...

I appreciate this thread so much. Not all of it, lol, but much. I have more peace when I rely on His work and not mine. I finally think I understand why this discussion IS so important. I still ponder the warning scriptures but believe they are to help us examine our hearts and for discernment in general. Clearly, I'm still sketchy on that a bit. But I tell you what, it is so freeing leaning on Him rather than on my own ability to find understanding, looking like a deer in the headlights, fearful I might not persevere. Wrong!!! Jeremiah 32:40 should sooth my soul, not paralyze it.

He keeps us... He is our shepherd...period. Eternal security does not null works, just gives the Glory to who is doing the works. Salvation and sanctification are His alone!!! The Lord of Host secures us, not of ourselves.

Penn said something in his 101...

If we believe, we will obey.. yeah truth of the simplicity of the Gospel. It isn't if we produce, we truly believe. But that because we truly believe, His nature will produce works within us.

My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing, I will sing praises, even with my soul. Awake, harp and lyre; I will awaken the dawn! I will give thanks to You, O Lord , among the peoples, And I will sing praises to You among the nations. For Your lovingkindness is great above the heavens, And Your truth reaches to the skies. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens, And Your glory above all the earth. That Your beloved may be delivered, Save with Your right hand, and answer me!
Psalms 108:1‭-‬6 NASB

I will keep my Lord beside me, because He is at my right hand, I shall NOT be moved. Therefore, my heart is glad, my Glory (soul) rejoices, and my flesh also RESTS in hope.

I pray as I continue to understand the verses, that my heart burns as He explains the verses to me.

True faith given by His Grace produces and transforms. Not one bit of it, nothing, zip, though, is of our own doing. It is because He first loved us.

What eternally grateful said about harmony within the verses rings so true. Truly, when there is not, that only points to faulty interpretation, not contradiction within His word. I just think we need to REST in His salvation and that finding that harmony takes His Glory, not ours. Ours is to wait on His revealing, praying, trusting, and reading His word. I just feel more peace, stepping into His rest, rather than striving so much. Thank u.

I can not find peace on one hand and strive on the other. I can but that just brings inner turmoil.

God Bless you all and thank you!! To God be all the Glory.

Amen sis, thank you for your humility and blessings, you have so much to offer, i think we can all learn from your humility as we strive to be more like Christ, thank you for your kind words, your words of encouragement. More importanlty, thank you for having your eyes open and willing to seek truth, even if you do not understand, you remind me so much of another dear sister we have the honor of having the pleasure of fellowshipping with.

 

[CharliRenee]

Your heart is rejoicing in the LORD , it is beautiful to hear...xox...

Sister, thank you so very much. I have enjoyed reading your insights in this thread, very much. Our Lord is so able, so merciful, so wonderful. God Bless you. ♡

 

[CharliRenee]

Amen sis, thank you for your humility and blessings, you have so much to offer, i think we can all learn from your humility as we strive to be more like Christ, thank you for your kind words, your words of encouragement. More importanlty, thank you for having your eyes open and willing to seek truth, even if you do not understand, you remind me so much of another dear sister we have the honor of having the pleasure of fellowshipping with.

You are so kind and merciful to me.
Thank you so much, which points to Him. I am so grateful. Thanks for looking through generous eyes, truly.

God is so good!!!

Listening to Penn's video while I write this, I just heard the only thing worse than works based salvation, is someone with one foot in and one foot out. Hahaha and Eeks...:0!!! Thanks be to God though, He knows us and understands who He is dealing with and how to get us where we need to be, standing in HIS victory, by staying at HIS feet.

I am far from harmonizing the entirety of the word, but praise be to Him, I know it is Him who will reveal Himself, in due time, not because of striving, though. Brother, I am so excited, though, to getting more understanding/clarity. It is challenging not getting frustrated. There is so much to learn. However what a beautiful blessing it is that He puts a thirst and hunger for Himself in our hearts and minds.

The works based salvation is about our sufficiency, which is ludicrous because our sufficiency is only by His grace abounding, period!!!! This is all apart of the dying to self and humility, but I didn't see that. Whoa!!!

Galatians 5:1 says so much!!!

Lord, I am so sorry, it is all about You my Lord, You and Your Kingdom!!!

I am currently doing a torah study and learning the old testament, but I need to keep my eye on Yeshua/Jesus and His saving grace throughout it. Ok well enough me me me, dang that is irritating. Sorry, peeps, it gets on my nerves too. Hahaha. Dangit, did it again, meeee meee meee. Switching it up here, You all are annoying too though, sometimes, lol, and I put up with you, hahaha. Jk, hope u see the humor.

Lord, bless this site and this thread, help us all to remember it, every single thing, comes back to You and Your dominion, Your Love, Your Grace, Your victory, Your work, Your sufficiency, NOT ours.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Well I could be wrong, here we go with the silly attacks. I wonder if he even understood what I was trying to say.


I believe I used the word chasten, which means corrections, or training in righteousness. Which is different than inposing a penalty or judgment on someone who committed a crime. (the penalty or judgment of sin is death)



redemptin for sin to free a person from eternal condemnation does not remove the temporal chastening of people and the end results of personal sin. and how you can think otherwise? I just do not undertand


Hopefully you rethink what you just said, and realize there is a huge difference between justification from the penalty of sin on an eternal basis, and the temporal chastening of a child who has done wrong. Even an earthly father who adopted a kid who had no home and no hope, removing them from a place where they had no family, no hope and were basically dead, and brought them into their home and gave them hope and a family, still chastens that child when they do wrong. I mean really. come on now!!



Now your bordering on slander, I suggest you stop seeing what you want to see and see what I am actually saying.


Again, You need to stop this nonsense of slandering people If you have no desire to ask them what they believe, then stop. These accusations are in error. I do not believe these things, nor have I insinuated them. I have tried to talk to you in a peaceful annor. But making false accusations like ths will nto get you any brownie points.




Why do you destroy context? The thought here is the sins which were committed BEFORE THE CROSS. not my past sns, which were committed AFTER the cross

once again, If jesus did not pay for your future sins, Your lost without hope. because you have no means of redemption. You can NOT pay for your own sin!

You know I said enjoy our agreement while it lasts...……...lol


If Jesus only died for past sins, the believer must live their life under the law, when you think about it. Paul is adamant they do not. But there is a proviso:

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under law Gal5:18

What does that mean? Could it mean that if you are led by the Spirit you will never commit sin, for you sin in the flesh? If that were true, then everytime the believer commits a sin they are placed back under the law and do not have grace. Which in reality is righteousness of fully obeying the law.
And then Paul tells us that new converts will be seen to be sinners whilst they are seeking justification of their Christianity by faith in Christ(Gal2:16&17) So we really have to try and put it all together don't we. Just quoting an odd verse(I know you do not do that) will never do.
So how do I put all those verses together? I can only refer you to a previous post. The Christian sets out on the path, and though far from sinless they are still being led of the Holy Spirit in the truth of the Gospel message, to live an evermore holy life. So although they have sin, they are not under law but under grace, they have peace. But they can step outside of the true path they should be on, by committing adultery for example. Then the convert cannot say ''everything is fine, I am not under law but under grace, all my sins have been paid by Christ. Now they must come before God and seek forgiveness for their folly, and they will surely receive it, for they are part of God's family. Then, hopefully they get straight back on the path they should be on. The problem comes in a big way if they do not, they keep committing adultery say, their peace goes, their faith starts to suffer, and in the end, for some, the heart can be so hardened it is so difficult to find your way back.
I guess that makes me a judaizer to some lol

I don't believe that Jesus died For Past Sins only, he died for all our sins

Our sins are forgiven at the moment of conversion when we are born again. but all of our future Sins must be repented of and forsaken

If you believe in Eternal justification were not only your past and present sins are forgiven, but also your future sins are forgiven before you commit them God would be unjust to chastise you for sin you were already forgiven for

Once sin is forgiven God said he doesn't remember it anymore

Nobody will agree on every single point..... I can handle a little disagreement though. Lol

 

[Goodnewsman]

"if we sin we have an advocate with the father......".

Not when but if

When we do sin, We should feel conviction that causes us to want to repent of that sin

What is wrong with that???

 

[Hevosmies]

Our sins are forgiven at the moment of conversion when we are born again. but all of our future Sins must be repented of and forsaken

Is this possible? Has anyoen ever forsaken ALL their sins?

DO you mean sins we can SEE like fornication drunkenness adultery etc? Or do you also mean: pride, strife, jealousy, lust, unloving attitude, knowing to do good and not doing it, etc. <- If you mean these I would argue I dont know ANYONE who has forsaken these.

That would mean that im not saved, nor is any Christian I have EVER MET in my life saved.

 

[CharliRenee]

I was raised steeped in legalism. I feared God, but knew nothing of loving him, for I feared any slight deviation from perfection could send me to hell(I kid you not) When grace graciously found me, I then could love God, for the burden was rolled away. How could I not love him? I now had a free salvation, and he lived in me through His Spirit, with his Son. I was so happy. God bless, thanks for sharing

I totally get this, 100% understand!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are so kind and merciful to me.
Thank you so much, which points to Him. I am so grateful. Thanks for looking through generous eyes, truly.

God is so good!!!

Listening to Penn's video while I write this, I just heard the only thing worse than works based salvation, is someone with one foot in and one foot out. Hahaha and Eeks...:0!!! Thanks be to God though, He knows us and understands who He is dealing with and how to get us where we need to be, standing in HIS victory, by staying at HIS feet.

I am far from harmonizing the entirety of the word, but praise be to Him, I know it is Him who will reveal Himself, in due time, not because of striving, though. Brother, I am so excited, though, to getting more understanding/clarity. It is challenging not getting frustrated. There is so much to learn. However what a beautiful blessing it is that He puts a thirst and hunger for Himself in our hearts and minds.

The works based salvation is about our sufficiency, which is ludicrous because our sufficiency is only by His grace abounding, period!!!! This is all apart of the dying to self and humility, but I didn't see that. Whoa!!!

Galatians 5:1 says so much!!!

Lord, I am so sorry, it is all about You my Lord, You and Your Kingdom!!!

I am currently doing a torah study and learning the old testament, but I need to keep my eye on Yeshua/Jesus and His saving grace throughout it. Ok well enough me me me, dang that is irritating. Sorry, peeps, it gets on my nerves too. Hahaha. Dangit, did it again, meeee meee meee. Switching it up here, You all are annoying too though, sometimes, lol, and I put up with you, hahaha. Jk, hope u see the humor.

Lord, bless this site and this thread, help us all to remember it, every single thing, comes back to You and Your dominion, Your Love, Your Grace, Your victory, Your work, Your sufficiency, NOT ours.

Amen, we have so much to offer each other, iron sharpens iron, but we have to be open, and looking for ways to defeat others, but looking for ways in which i may be wrong, so many in CC have sharp ned me, and shown me ways i have been wrong for so long, but also answered questions i never could answer before. There are times i want to leave, because i can’t handle the way some people act, and how they give god a bad name, but thankfully there are those who are open, and really want to learn and help me learn.. i just have to remember to stay out of certain threads, which is sad, because i cant even discuss my favorite subject other than the gospel (prophecy) because of the hate certain people have in those threads,

I pray for your leviticus study, it has been many years since i have delved into those passages. Let us inow what you find!