Pray about it, conversing with people who believe the basis of the new covenant was given to jews who wanted an inferior way is not something I am inclined to do. Never get anywhere, and no stimulating debate possibleWhat does this mean
Not By Works
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U
UnderGrace
Guest
I went back through the thread, I will admit difficult to follow the conversation with my tired brain but that is absolutely not what you wrote!!
He should apologize.
I wrote:
Well I gave you an opportunity to explain to me the foundation upon which the new covenant stands and its application in the believers life, and you cannot do it can you. You cannot get anymore basic than the basics of the christian faith. And as you cannot even do that, who is on the milk?
He wrote:
Let me tell you pal....yanking two verses out of the midst of HEBREWS which was written to JEWISH believers that wanted to go back under an inferior way to PROVE or ASK for my view on the foundation of the NEW COVENANT does not qualify as a valid question.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
That is not what he wrote.....go back and read again. Seriously ...smh!!
The plainest scripture ever that OSAS is a false doctrine
notice vere 23 "the kingdom of heaven is likened"
Matthew 18:21-35 (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
here is a man who was clearly forgiven.... who would not forgive others and the king took back his mercy and delivered him to the tormentors
notice vere 23 "the kingdom of heaven is likened"
Matthew 18:21-35 (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
here is a man who was clearly forgiven.... who would not forgive others and the king took back his mercy and delivered him to the tormentors
But are people who do such things really believers? Paul said "such WERE some of you". So if people are still doing these things, they need to examine themselves. No, I am not fruit inspecting. I am saying what the scripture says. I only examine MYSELF, I don't examine and judge other people, but I do examine myself, as Paul instructed me to.
I wrote
Well I gave you an opportunity to explain to me the foundation upon which the new covenant stands and its application in the believers life, and you cannot do it can you. You cannot get anymore basic than the basics of the christian faith. And as you cannot even do that, who is on the milk?
He wrote
Let me tell you pal....yanking two verses out of the midst of HEBREWS which was written to JEWISH believers that wanted to go back under an inferior way to PROVE or ASK for my view on the foundation of the NEW COVENANT does not qualify as a valid question.
Well, i have no beef with the other guy, except we disagree on some things, but some, won't mention names, are highly judgemental and have a uncontrollable tongue or pen or whatever, problems with false accusations and namecalling. I am waiting for people to back up their false accusations about me, but they probably won't until we all stand before the Bema seat of Christ, but so be it.
I asked a question on here yesterday, none of them answered it:
If someone made a commitment to Christ without counting the cost(luke 14) they made a shallow commitment, would God still place them in a saved state?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Hebrews was written to Jewish believers. True
The were struggling with the new covenant, since it was a shift in thinking from being under the law and continual sacrifices. True
Some of them were indeed trying to go back to the old covenant which was an inferior way. True
You sir have misunderstood this sentence completely!!
Well of course you are going to try and get your buddy who thinks like you off the hook aren't you, I expected that. And you did give his post the thumbs up
Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit, not the human will. If anyone misses that, they will have problematic doctrine.
That's the problem with easy believism. Faith is a mental activity, mental activity saves, instead of faith is a spirit wrought work of the Spirit, and it is God who saves, and He saves FROM SIN, not for sin
But does the commitment made at conversion count for something? You are saved/justified by faith in Christ, and yes, regeneration is by the holy Spirit as is sanctification. But if you make a shallow commitment you may well not stay the course. Jesus explains it well in the parable of the sower.
You are right, wrong doctrine can have devastating consequences, and who are we to decide, if that happens the fate of the one who receives it. Only God is all knowing, and he has compassion on whom he will have compassion
you are not able to make any convincing case other than your asserting it is so, eh?
well, that does give me a certain piece of information
thanks
Incidentally, now he knows what the basis of the new covenant is, I would again invite him to explain it to me and its practical application in the believers life. I do not believe he can do it, time will tell if I am right.
I cannot disagree with anything you said, because it's all scriptural. I think that the depth of conviction by the Spirit determined whether you stay the course in part. In other words, the more our decision is based on mere human willpower, the more likely it will not be a true conversion. Human willpower will ALWAYS fail when it comes to things of God. But Spirit wrought grace that makes us willing will produce genuine conversions. In fact, that's the only thing that will
I am not a semioelagian, ie I don't believe in mere decisional regeneration. Salvation from beginning to end is the work of God, and not according to our willing or running, but on His Mercy
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Rather than the ad hominem, how about you explain what is wrong with post
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-3849439
I passed by you and saw you lying in your blood, and I said to you as you lay in your blood: Live!
Yes, I said to you as you lay in your blood: Live! I made you thrive like plants of the field.
(Ezekiel 16:6-7)
(Ezekiel 16:6-7)
. . . but what do i know . . .
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Not our commitment that justifies, regenerates or sanctifies, it is faith in Jesus and His work, He is the object of our faith.
Parable of the sower is not about losing one's salvation.
Well I gave you an opportunity to explain to me the foundation upon which the new covenant stands and its application in the believers life, and you cannot do it can you. You cannot get anymore basic than the basics of the christian faith. And as you cannot even do that, who is on the milk?
He wrote
Let me tell you pal....yanking two verses out of the midst of HEBREWS which was written to JEWISH believers that wanted to go back under an inferior way to PROVE or ASK for my view on the foundation of the NEW COVENANT does not qualify as a valid question.
I do not need to explain it, it is there for all to see. Perhaps you can tell me why he stated it was not a valid question to ask for his view on what the new covenant stands on?
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