Not By Works

[Rightlydivided]

I go to a pentecostal church, they believe you can lose your salvation, so I can say how they answer each of these:

Saved to the uttermost......... if you continue in the faith as it says in colossians.

Kept by the power of God, He starts and Finishes, but human free will so God wont "force" it on anyone.

I will lose nothing the Father has given me, thats a tough one to answe,r dont know what they'd say, maybe free will card again? He wont lose any but people lose themselves? i dunno, any conditional security believers wanna tackle that?.

Eternal and everlasting means everlasting, but we ignore the past "saved" tense and say eternal life isnt present, but only in the future, we are in possession of it, but we arent, very simple No seriously, this is another one I want some conditional security believer to address, how can we have PRESENT TENSE eternal life if we believe, yet not be saved? HOW DOES THAT WORK? If you have it now, but not tomorrow it wasnt ETERNAL?

Salvation irrevocable gift, but free will, you get a BMW as a gift and crash it.

Never leave or forsake us, unless you forsake Him. (free will, notice the pattern here?)

Born eternally from above by incorruptible seed, unless you die again by sinning willfully too much.

“Sinning willfully too much”......what is the cut off these days anyway, as it pertains to acting like Christ didn’t die on the cross for your sin, and avoiding full blown hypocrisy? 3 sins a day? If you go over 5, do you die instantly? What is the mixture? 2 adulterous acts, and 1 lie? Or can you lie 3 times, and throw in 1 adulterous act at the END of the day? Im wandering because that would be so close to the next 24 hour period....

 

[dcontroversal]

"I will raise IT up on the last day"

Why doesn't it say "them"????

Why does the verse say "it" when it mentions people, which would be a "they"?????

Find out.

Nice try at a distraction....I suggest focus on biblical salvation and once you get that down pat move on to bigger fish.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Is finding a new Church that teaches the way you now BELIEVE an Option?

Is the teaching that genuine Tongues and the MIRACLE GIFTS, are only an Apostolic Gift, going to bother your?


I will show you some verses that plainly declares that ETERNAL LIFE IS HERE AND NOW, if you are BORN AGAIN. And I am convinced you probably are. The understanding that you now have, is what I think is a major indication. You see what is a Stumbling Block, is many Christians, think that SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the same thing, and THEY ARE NOT.

SALVATION is of the Human Spirit, and it is ETERNALLY ALIVE once you have been born again. Yes, it is a war between the new born human Spirit, and the will of the Flesh, when you first are saved. But the New Born Human Spirit will become dominant as is MATURES on the WORD OF GOD.

SANCTIFICATION, is the process whereby the human body, conforms to the will of GOD, becoming more and more like Christ, which will not reach PERFECTION until HE gives us that Glorified Body at the Resurrection.

I attend a conservative non-denominational evangelical type of Church. I like that, because, they do not get to PIN a denominational TITLE on me. Most of the Churches I have been involved with since I became Born Again, have been IFCA affiliated Churches. The abbreviation stands for Independent Fundamental Churches of America, but now it is International. Do get some input from DC too, we believe almost the Same Doctrinally, with only one exception, I believe in the Pre-Tribulation "Calling Out of the Bride of Christ" and he does not. Here is there Doctrinal Statement of Faith, from IFCA Churches, that may give you an idea what to look for, if you choose to search for a new Church. https://www.ifca.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140043234&sec_id=140007594

Here are some of the Verses that I promised:


John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

John 3:16 (HCSB)
16 “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 17:3 (HCSB)
3 This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (HCSB)
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.

2 Timothy 1:10 (HCSB)
10 This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

1 John 3:14-15 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.


SEE IT ? ? ?

WE DO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE RESIDING IN OUR HUMAN SPIRITS !

Not real sure why you directed the above at me...I have never said or indicated that we are not currently possessing eternal life and salvation right now so.....

Whoops just seen who it was meant to address....no worries mate

 

[GodsGrace101]

@dcontroversal

Nice try at a distraction....I suggest focus on biblical salvation and once you get that down pat move on to bigger fish.....!!

You make comments but refuse to engage me in a real biblical discussion.
Just FYI,,, I've been studying the Bible longer than you've been on Earth.

And you're misleading people, just like some preachers do because what you say sounds good.

Why don't you tell us all what believe means?
Why don't you tell us all why the verse says IT instead of THEM???
John 6:39

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@dcontroversal


You make comments but refuse to engage me in a real biblical discussion.
Just FYI,,, I've been studying the Bible longer than you've been on Earth.

And you're misleading people, just like some preachers do because what you say sounds good.

Why don't you tell us all what believe means?
Why don't you tell us all why the verse says IT instead of THEM???
John 6:39

For studying that long, you sure have missed alot of things

John 6:39 concerning the TRANSLATION it.

greek english lexicon of the new testament based on semantic domains
92.11 αὐτόςb, ή, ό: a reference to a definite person or persons spoken or written about (with an added feature of emphasis in the nominative forms)—‘he, him, she, her, it, they, them.’ αὐτὸς γὰρ σώσει τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτῶν ‘for he will save his people from their sins’ Mt 1:21; καὶ οὗτος μὴν ἕκτος ἐστὶν αὐτῇ τῇ καλουμένῃ στείρᾳ ‘and this was the sixth month for her who was called barren’ Lk 1:36; αὐτῶν τὴν συνείδησιν ‘their conscience’ 1 Cor 8:12; καὶ κρατήσας τῆς χειρὸς τοῦ παιδίου λέγει αὐτῇ ‘and taking the child by the hand, he said to her’ Mk 5:41.

Thats why it is dangerous not to take a deeper study when tranlated word seem to be confusing or out of place. Not all translators got it right

And you have been shown the difference between believe and true saving faith so many times we have lost cound

We believe you believe in jesus, what we cant see is you actually have faith, people,who have faith have assurance, and are convinced (the defenition) it does not appear you have either of these characteristics.

 

[BillG]

Nice to hear.

do you know how he is doing now? I got no doubt the man is saved. I was just sad to see his unsureness

Maybe you could talk to him and tell him that he can know he is saved. Give some hope to him

I don't think he is in public ministry now.
He has retired to the countryside.
He never came across as being unsure.

He sure was a loving gentle man.
So easy to listen to.

 

[Hevosmies]

You don’t like this passage do you?

Matthew 15:22-28 King James Version (KJV)
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Hmmmm...

I got no problem with that passage? Keep reading to Matthew 28:19-20.

I will not accept your false teaching of multiple gospels no matter how much you try. Go spread your propaganda to someone else, wont work on me.

I believe in eternal security of the believer, yet you try to make it seem like I dont. Why is that?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Afternoon all...
John 10:9 I am the gate , whoever enters through Me WILL be SAVED. He will come in and out and find pasture.
I was just reading this through John , if you have entered through the gate ( Jesus ) you are saved ...

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice , I know them , and they follow Me. 28 I give them ETERNAL LIFE , and they shall NEVER perish , no one can SNATCH them out of my hand.no one . 29 My Father , who has GIVEN them to me , is greater than all , NO ONE can snatch them out of my Father's hand , I and the Father are one.

Praise God and thank You Jesus \/...xox...

 

[VCO]

Not real sure why you directed the above at me...I have never said or indicated that we are not currently possessing eternal life and salvation right now so.....

Whoops just seen who it was meant to address....no worries mate

It's embarrassing but those kind of mistakes are happening more often now. It could be because of the strokes, or old age, but I do not like it. Sorry.

 

[Rightlydivided]

I got no problem with that passage? Keep reading to Matthew 28:19-20.

I will not accept your false teaching of multiple gospels no matter how much you try. Go spread your propaganda to someone else, wont work on me.

I believe in eternal security of the believer, yet you try to make it seem like I dont. Why is that?

The woman was a gentile....what did Jesus tell her? He came for the lost sheep of Israel, and it is not meet to take the bread from the children, and feed it unto the dogs...he does go on to help her, but not until his point was made.
In reference to your (Jesus and the deciples were preaching the same message to all)

I have heard you speak on eternal salvation, but it is riddled with work/repentance, as a fee or transaction....you are sealed the moment you believe, the debt was paid. That is the starting point. If your applying the word, which was preached to the lost sheep of Israel, to yourself, you will never see grace as God intended, and therefore the question must be asked....Did you ever really believe that Jesus died for all your sins? If you are trying to apply works/repentenace to salvation.....your simply saying “it wasn’t enough” “I must do more to show God”. You say eternal salvation, and then you say “but only if”, which has no resemblance of a “seal” at all

 

[Rightlydivided]

I got no problem with that passage? Keep reading to Matthew 28:19-20.

I will not accept your false teaching of multiple gospels no matter how much you try. Go spread your propaganda to someone else, wont work on me.

I believe in eternal security of the believer, yet you try to make it seem like I dont. Why is that?

As as far as the Great Commission is concerned.....Can you show me the scripture relating to them actually doing what Jesus said? Going forth? Physically? Baptizing? Where are the Epistles relating to the Great Commisson? Acts 1 and 2? Hardly.....it never happened, not because it won’t, it will, during tribulation after the rapture of the church. Unless of course you think Paul singlehandedly fulfilled it.....alone

 

[Argueless]

... “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

 

[GodsGrace101]

As as far as the Great Commission is concerned.....Can you show me the scripture relating to them actually doing what Jesus said? Going forth? Physically? Baptizing? Where are the Epistles relating to the Great Commisson? Acts 1 and 2? Hardly.....it never happened, not because it won’t, it will, during tribulation after the rapture of the church. Unless of course you think Paul singlehandedly fulfilled it.....alone

Wow.
You need to study up on the history of the Christian church!!
What religion are you anyway?
You think Jesus gave the Apostles a command and they didn't follow it through?

No wonder you think works are not necessary to maintain your salvation.
If the Apostles didn't listen to Jesus --- why should you!

 

[Hevosmies]

The woman was a gentile....what did Jesus tell her? He came for the lost sheep of Israel, and it is not meet to take the bread from the children, and feed it unto the dogs...he does go on to help her, but not until his point was made.
In reference to your (Jesus and the deciples were preaching the same message to all)

I have heard you speak on eternal salvation, but it is riddled with work/repentance, as a fee or transaction....you are sealed the moment you believe, the debt was paid. That is the starting point. If your applying the word, which was preached to the lost sheep of Israel, to yourself, you will never see grace as God intended, and therefore the question must be asked....Did you ever really believe that Jesus died for all your sins? If you are trying to apply works/repentenace to salvation.....your simply saying “it wasn’t enough” “I must do more to show God”. You say eternal salvation, and then you say “but only if”, which has no resemblance of a “seal” at all

Its not me applying repentance to salvation. Its your claimed Apostle, Paul :

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Its part of the Gospel, after Jesus' resurrection:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you take away repentance you take away part of the Gospel. And that makes you A-grade heretic preaching a false gospel. And im not saying you take it away. Here would be a good time to agree with me and these bible verses from both Paul and Jesus.

The difference is, what you FAIL to understand is that I believe that this repentance is not something we do in the flesh, its God's work. Therefore, NOT OF WORKS. I believe God sanctifies. God justifies.

Now go and agree or disagree, I have done all I can and I am running out of ways to explain this simple truth. These verses are so simple and crystal clear, there should be no debate.
And if you do disagree, please stop posting to me, go get your last word in if need be and then let it be that. If repentance isnt part of the gospel then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

[GodsGrace101]

... “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

You post very good verses.
It's just too bad no one here seems to understand English.
If they did....they'd sit up and pay attention.

To JESUS.

 

[Argueless]

...“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’ “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. “Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’ “But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’ “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. Matthew 25:1-13

 

[Argueless]

. “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ “The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ “Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matthew 25:14-30

 

[Argueless]

...“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25:31-46

 

[Rightlydivided]

Its not me applying repentance to salvation. Its your claimed Apostle, Paul :

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Its part of the Gospel, after Jesus' resurrection:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you take away repentance you take away part of the Gospel. And that makes you A-grade heretic preaching a false gospel. And im not saying you take it away. Here would be a good time to agree with me and these bible verses from both Paul and Jesus.

The difference is, what you FAIL to understand is that I believe that this repentance is not something we do in the flesh, its God's work. Therefore, NOT OF WORKS. I believe God sanctifies. God justifies.

Now go and agree or disagree, I have done all I can and I am running out of ways to explain this simple truth. These verses are so simple and crystal clear, there should be no debate.
And if you do disagree, please stop posting to me, go get your last word in if need be and then let it be that. If repentance isnt part of the gospel then there is nothing for us to discuss.

There are 2 definitions to repentance, the one you choose, defines wether or not you are truely living under grace.

1. Repentance = to turn from your sin.
This would not make much sense as per the Cross
2. Repentance = to change your mind, in the context of Paul, believe the good news.

The first definition puts the believer back under the law....

The second, speaks for itself, and is an obvious reaction, requiring little emphasis.

i do not teach repentance in the way that you seem to be referring to, if you believe it is an increase by God, defined with more clarity than simply (turn from your sin) as if you could, then we may have found a needle thin line of agreement....

While reading on the scripture you sent, I did notice something, call it a point of interest.

Paul says this....

1 Corinthians 1:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


Mathew 28, the Great Commision, says to go forth “babtizing”

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Could someone explain to me, why Paul says he did not come to baptize?

 

[GodsGrace101]

There are 2 definitions to repentance, the one you choose, defines wether or not you are truely living under grace.

1. Repentance = to turn from your sin.
This would not make much sense as per the Cross
2. Repentance = to change your mind, in the context of Paul, believe the good news.

The first definition puts the believer back under the law....

The second, speaks for itself, and is an obvious reaction, requiring little emphasis.

i do not teach repentance in the way that you seem to be referring to, if you believe it is an increase by God, defined with more clarity than simply (turn from your sin) as if you could, then we may have found a needle thin line of agreement....

While reading on the scripture you sent, I did notice something, call it a point of interest.

Paul says this....

1 Corinthians 1:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


Mathew 28, the Great Commision, says to go forth “babtizing”

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Could someone explain to me, why Paul says he did not come to baptize?

Was Paul present at the time of Mathew 28?
Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the original 11 Apostles.
THEY were authorized to baptize and forgive sin and heal, etc.

Paul was sent to preach the mystery that had been hidden till then to the whole "world" ...at least what was known of it at that time.

He also PREACHED. What would you call it?
He just didn't feel it was HIS duty to baptize.
Do you go to a pastor or minister to be baptized,,,or to the preacher down the street?