Not By Works
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I meant that the discussion was for a different thread. It seemed like we were derailing...
I'll check out the Open Theism thread tomorrow...it's an interesting topic.
Yeah. Compatibilist free will is a very scary thought...
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The FREE GIFT of God is His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. (Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)
“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21
...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Then John said; ...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did.
WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)
...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17
...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8
...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world. Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God
. ...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8
...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5 ...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21
...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Then John said; ...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did.
WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)
...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17
...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8
...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world. Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God
. ...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8
...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5 ...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
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Personally, I do works because it's the right thing to do when a person wants to serve God and be His example. No adding needed..
Every one on this thread who knows me, knows that I believe that works are not necessary to gain, maintain, keep or secure salvation. We do works to obey God and show His love to others.
Every one on this thread who knows me, knows that I believe that works are not necessary to gain, maintain, keep or secure salvation. We do works to obey God and show His love to others.
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me too - some people even say that's one of my defining qualities
i rarely appear emotional
i rarely appear emotional
Remember I told you from the beginning that I liked you?
Now we know why, its the stoic gathering, lol
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You can post 100 scriptures Fran and it will never alleviate....
Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the power of God through the faith he begins, finishes and completes
I will lose NOTHING THE FATHER HAS GIVEN ME BUT WILL RAISE IT UP THE LAST DAY
ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING meaning eternal and everlasting
Salvation as a free IRREVOCABLE GIFT
Never leave or forsake us
Born eternally from above by incorruptible SEED
and on and on and on
CONFLATING justification with ongoing sanctification and rejecting the ability to gain or lose rewards and NOT SALVATION will continue to keep you in the dark...
You have kids....Can anything change the absolute fact that they have been BORN YOUR CHILD BY BIRTH?
NO........for all eternity they will be your child by birth!
Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the power of God through the faith he begins, finishes and completes
I will lose NOTHING THE FATHER HAS GIVEN ME BUT WILL RAISE IT UP THE LAST DAY
ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING meaning eternal and everlasting
Salvation as a free IRREVOCABLE GIFT
Never leave or forsake us
Born eternally from above by incorruptible SEED
and on and on and on
CONFLATING justification with ongoing sanctification and rejecting the ability to gain or lose rewards and NOT SALVATION will continue to keep you in the dark...
You have kids....Can anything change the absolute fact that they have been BORN YOUR CHILD BY BIRTH?
NO........for all eternity they will be your child by birth!
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@GodsGrace101 Remember to not leave God out the picture completely! Its not like you get saved and then you just gotta hang on for dear life in the flesh hoping to make it in the end. I dont see that as biblical salvation. I also must confess if I DID view salvation that way, I would renounce Christianity in a heartbeat, I got no time for playing russian roulette with my life, never knowing what my standing is and where I will stand on the other side. What if I were to waste all my life doing charity, living well, trying not to sin, ONLY TO still come up short and end up in hell? That means I just wasted my entire life, while I could of partied it up and still ended up in the same fiery hellhole. do you see my point here?
If you cant KNOW you are saved, WHY BOTHER with anything at all?
Many verses have been posted where God does something.
Among other things, He saves and He sanctifies.
If you cant KNOW you are saved, WHY BOTHER with anything at all?
Many verses have been posted where God does something.
Among other things, He saves and He sanctifies.
When one has the truth it is easy to see through the religious inept rigmarole......
I am so glad that Jesus keeps his word, is all powerful, saves me to the uttermost, keeps me by his power through the faith he starts, finishes and completes, gives me the irrevocable gift of everlasting life and by his spirt has rebirthed me eternally by incorruptible seed from ABOVE.....
I am so glad that Jesus keeps his word, is all powerful, saves me to the uttermost, keeps me by his power through the faith he starts, finishes and completes, gives me the irrevocable gift of everlasting life and by his spirt has rebirthed me eternally by incorruptible seed from ABOVE.....
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I go to a pentecostal church, they believe you can lose your salvation, so I can say how they answer each of these:
Saved to the uttermost......... if you continue in the faith as it says in colossians.
Kept by the power of God, He starts and Finishes, but human free will so God wont "force" it on anyone.
I will lose nothing the Father has given me, thats a tough one to answe,r dont know what they'd say, maybe free will card again? He wont lose any but people lose themselves? i dunno, any conditional security believers wanna tackle that?.
Eternal and everlasting means everlasting, but we ignore the past "saved" tense and say eternal life isnt present, but only in the future, we are in possession of it, but we arent, very simple No seriously, this is another one I want some conditional security believer to address, how can we have PRESENT TENSE eternal life if we believe, yet not be saved? HOW DOES THAT WORK? If you have it now, but not tomorrow it wasnt ETERNAL?
Salvation irrevocable gift, but free will, you get a BMW as a gift and crash it.
Never leave or forsake us, unless you forsake Him. (free will, notice the pattern here?)
Born eternally from above by incorruptible seed, unless you die again by sinning willfully too much.
Saved to the uttermost......... if you continue in the faith as it says in colossians.
Kept by the power of God, He starts and Finishes, but human free will so God wont "force" it on anyone.
I will lose nothing the Father has given me, thats a tough one to answe,r dont know what they'd say, maybe free will card again? He wont lose any but people lose themselves? i dunno, any conditional security believers wanna tackle that?.
Eternal and everlasting means everlasting, but we ignore the past "saved" tense and say eternal life isnt present, but only in the future, we are in possession of it, but we arent, very simple
No seriously, this is another one I want some conditional security believer to address, how can we have PRESENT TENSE eternal life if we believe, yet not be saved? HOW DOES THAT WORK? If you have it now, but not tomorrow it wasnt ETERNAL?Salvation irrevocable gift, but free will, you get a BMW as a gift and crash it.
Never leave or forsake us, unless you forsake Him. (free will, notice the pattern here?)
Born eternally from above by incorruptible seed, unless you die again by sinning willfully too much.
Jesus was clear concerning the Pharisees making disciples.....said disciples were two fold the children of hell, meaning...
a. They were bound by a false religion
b. They were lost as well
In order to be born again they had to get over two things now instead of one<--just being lost.......
Two fold the children of hell.....a very difficult process to overcome.....many will not make that boat......
Lord, Lord have we not done<---exactly what salvation losers, Cainologists, Pharisees and the workers for peddle!
a. They were bound by a false religion
b. They were lost as well
In order to be born again they had to get over two things now instead of one<--just being lost.......
Two fold the children of hell.....a very difficult process to overcome.....many will not make that boat......
Lord, Lord have we not done<---exactly what salvation losers, Cainologists, Pharisees and the workers for peddle!
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