Not By Works

[Jewel5712]

It does not matter who says it

You can not say we are saved by grace and not works (we can not earn our salvation) and then claim we have to work to remain saved (earning our salvation) because we are contradicting ourself.

Pruning is an aspect of cutting dead parts out of a branch to make it able to produce fruit. It is not the branch being destroyed it is the bad parts of the branch beingn cut out. It is what God does to his people.. I have experienced it. You claim to be a christian, have you not experienced this in your life?

If
OUCH!

 

[calibob]

banannas pumpkin

Fruit is not works. Good works produces fruit. I know this is a brand new concept to try to absorb, but God wants you to be engaged in good works as a new person in the Holy Spirit in order to produce fruit for his kingdom.

The word fruit refers to several things, but the number one thing it refers to is souls. The saving of souls is the fruit that God is looking for the most. He wants everyone to have a chance at being saved, and so much of our good works goes into missionary work, which includes proselyting for new converts, and fellowshiping our own congregations to bring people back to Jesus Christ. This is the great work that the Lord is engaged in, and this is the great work that we should be engaged in.

So don't be offended at my words, they are also the words of your Lord Jesus Christ, straight out of the bible. Now you may interpret it different than me, but that is our right to believe as we see fit, and as the Holy Spirit witnesses to me. I have grown up in the church being taught that we are new people in the Lord through our belief in Jesus and our baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that we are to be engaged in the work of the Lord. If we slack off and are too distracted by our busy worldly life and will not get engaged in the work of the Lord, then there are consequences to our actions and decisions. And I believe the bible confirms that belief.

Dosn't the scripture say that if the branches don't produce fruit? so if works aren't works what are you talking about.

Wou'r using word salad. I know you've got a computer, look it up!

 

[TruthTalk]

I never implied it did..judas felt deep remorse..he confessed his wrong doung..gave the money back..NEVER said he did all that for salvation..actually posted TWICE to magenta it didnt...but i ALSO posted several times that we dont KNOW in judas last moments IF he became saved or not..Bible doesnt say n only God knows judas heart..but i really dont want to tail chase on this subject anymore

Hi Jewel I think most including me , , are in agreement with you, "the bible doesn't say and only God knows Judas' heart", yes and no more, "tail chasin", or "cat chasin flashlight"

 

[Jewel5712]

Hi Jewel I think most including me , , are in agreement with you, "the bible doesn't say and only God knows Judas' heart", yes and no more, "tail chasin", or "cat chasin flashlight"

My cats LOVE the laser light..LOL

 

[calibob]

Is not the Bible TIMELESS, meaning it remains the SAME AUTHORITY, and does not change with the times?

The Church is to CONFORM to the Holy Scriptures, and NOT the Holy Scriptures need to Conform to Society.

Yes, our SOCIETY has what they call Political Correctness, where women are accepted, and it involves everything.

Now it is seeps into the Church in the form of Women Pastors and Elders. God assigned separate roles for

women and men in the Church, however, HE considers them to be CO-EQUALLY IMPORTANCE, but not function.

In Our LOVE for GOD, we must be obedient to everything. So it is a question of obedience, are we going to

be obedient to GOD, or do we bow down to Society. My Church does not allow women to Teach in the assembly,

ONLY because GOD SAID SO.


1 Timothy 2:11-12 (HCSB)
11 A woman should learn in silence with full submission.
12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 (NKJV)
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NKJV)
34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.


I amazes me, how many people want to harp of being obedient to the WORD, but not those verses. They say that changed when Society Changed. NO, . . . THAT IS HOW GOD SAID IT WAS TO BE DONE.


My Wife and I were starting to go to an Evangelical Lutheran Church, and a few weeks later, here comes the Assistant Pastor, who was to preach while Pastor was on vacation. My mouth fell open, because I did not know they allowed woman to be ordained. Needless to say, my wife and I walked out of the Church immediately, never to return.

Hurl your stones if you must, be we believe in Going by what the BIBLE says.

So men should grow beards & KEEP THEIR HAIR SHORT AND WOMEN SHOULD BE QUIET & WEAR HATS?

 

[calibob]

Is not the Bible TIMELESS, meaning it remains the SAME AUTHORITY, and does not change with the times?

The Church is to CONFORM to the Holy Scriptures, and NOT the Holy Scriptures need to Conform to Society.

Yes, our SOCIETY has what they call Political Correctness, where women are accepted, and it involves everything.

Now it is seeps into the Church in the form of Women Pastors and Elders. God assigned separate roles for

women and men in the Church, however, HE considers them to be CO-EQUALLY IMPORTANCE, but not function.

In Our LOVE for GOD, we must be obedient to everything. So it is a question of obedience, are we going to

be obedient to GOD, or do we bow down to Society. My Church does not allow women to Teach in the assembly,

ONLY because GOD SAID SO.


1 Timothy 2:11-12 (HCSB)
11 A woman should learn in silence with full submission.
12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 (NKJV)
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NKJV)
34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.


I amazes me, how many people want to harp of being obedient to the WORD, but not those verses. They say that changed when Society Changed. NO, . . . THAT IS HOW GOD SAID IT WAS TO BE DONE.


My Wife and I were starting to go to an Evangelical Lutheran Church, and a few weeks later, here comes the Assistant Pastor, who was to preach while Pastor was on vacation. My mouth fell open, because I did not know they allowed woman to be ordained. Needless to say, my wife and I walked out of the Church immediately, never to return.

Hurl your stones if you must, be we believe in Going by what the BIBLE says.

Mind you, I'm not completely sold on Women teaching men how to be men but women can sure learn a lot from other women and unless we starting having segregated services I think we can learn a lot from each other.

 

[Jewel5712]

So men should grow beards & KEEP THEIR HAIR SHORT AND WOMEN SHOULD BE QUIET & WEAR HATS?

 

[calibob]

So men should grow beards & KEEP THEIR HAIR SHORT AND WOMEN SHOULD BE QUIET & WEAR HATS?

Quakers don't even enforce that any more.

 

[TruthTalk]

Never be offended by the Word of God.

I am offended by your twisting and your misrepresentation of God's Word.

Your counterfeit gospel is the worst I have ever seen, the absolute worst and everyone here knows it is fake and the bible proves your gospel is the fake.

Matthew15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

 

[VCO]

So men should grow beards & KEEP THEIR HAIR SHORT AND WOMEN SHOULD BE QUIET & WEAR HATS?

Show me in the New Testament, other than this.


1 Corinthians 11:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.


I do not find the specific length of Hair mentioned in those two verses.
I believe it is because you should look the part the gender that you are, even from the back.

Other than that, I am not finding it in the New Testament.

 

[benhur]

I notice you use the word saved in it's past tense form. How is that possible when it can still be lost?

The same way the bible writers say, now you are clean from the sins of this generation. But a warning is to you, remain clean or you will suffer the consequences.

The Lord says you are saved, but, now be a new person in me and be engaged in my great work, and bring much fruit into the KOG.
If you lapse, God will prune and purge you to help you become fruitful again, if you continue to lapse, and even fall further without repenting, you will be cut off of the true vine and taken away. (John 15:2) It is Jesus that uses the words "cut off", these are not my words.

So how do we reconcile John 15: 2 and most of James and many other scriptures to John 3:16? Here is how I reconcile these scriptures. Jesus says that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am under the understanding that if a person believes, the these things happen:
1) they will recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit
2) they will receive a new person in Jesus
3) they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to do what the Lord wants them to do
4) they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to engage in the great work of the Lord to save souls, bringing many souls to God and then they can have the Holy Spirit guide them too in their new person.

To me, if you really believe, and you are really born-again, and you really are a new person in Christ, the being engaged in the great work of the Lord is a pleasant by-product, or a pleasant sign that these things have happened to you.

So if we see the sign, we know you are with the Lord. If we do not see the sign, we know you are not with the Lord, and one of two things have happened.
1) you did not really believe, and were not really born-again.
2) you have fallen, and are not listening to the Holy Spirit and unless you repent, you will not have EL. I believe that a person will not receive EL unless they really believe and the sign of really believing is to be engaged in the great work of the Lord.

So when the Lord say if you believe you will have EL, you must really believe, not fake it.

 

[benhur]

I am offended by your twisting and your misrepresentation of God's Word.

Your counterfeit gospel is the worst I have ever seen, the absolute worst and everyone here knows it is fake and the bible proves your gospel is the fake.

Matthew15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

Quit being offended. Give me the Christian right to believe as I wish. I have done the same things that you have done, I am saved too, so let it be. If you don't like what I say, put me on ignore. We are not that far apart, but that slight difference is causing you to be offended. I am sorry for that, so just put me on ignore.

 

[benhur]

Because you say you works will maitnain your salvation. Knowinng if you stop them, you will lose your salvation.

Thats called boasting.

In your mind, that may be, but not in my mind. And it will be Jesus who judges what we have done as to whether we have EL or not.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The same way the bible writers say, now you are clean from the sins of this generation. But a warning is to you, remain clean or you will suffer the consequences.

The Lord says you are saved, but, now be a new person in me and be engaged in my great work, and bring much fruit into the KOG.
If you lapse, God will prune and purge you to help you become fruitful again, if you continue to lapse, and even fall further without repenting, you will be cut off of the true vine and taken away. (John 15:2) It is Jesus that uses the words "cut off", these are not my words.

So how do we reconcile John 15: 2 and most of James and many other scriptures to John 3:16? Here is how I reconcile these scriptures. Jesus says that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am under the understanding that if a person believes, the these things happen:
1) they will recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit
2) they will receive a new person in Jesus
3) they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to do what the Lord wants them to do
4) they will be guided by the Holy Spirit to engage in the great work of the Lord to save souls, bringing many souls to God and then they can have the Holy Spirit guide them too in their new person.

To me, if you really believe, and you are really born-again, and you really are a new person in Christ, the being engaged in the great work of the Lord is a pleasant by-product, or a pleasant sign that these things have happened to you.

So if we see the sign, we know you are with the Lord. If we do not see the sign, we know you are not with the Lord, and one of two things have happened.
1) you did not really believe, and were not really born-again.
2) you have fallen, and are not listening to the Holy Spirit and unless you repent, you will not have EL. I believe that a person will not receive EL unless they really believe and the sign of really believing is to be engaged in the great work of the Lord.

So when the Lord say if you believe you will have EL, you must really believe, not fake it.

So you can't say 'saved' in the past tense until you get to heaven and see if you made it. And if you don't get to heaven, you must not have been 'saved' but you'll know at any rate. Sizzle . . . pop . . . burn!

The Bible says we have 'peace with God' . . . but no one has the peace of God nor peace with God as long as they are wondering if they are doing what they are supposed to do to please Him. If you are not pleasing Him -- you must be lost.

I have perfect peace because the old account was settled long ago!

 

[benhur]

If we do those things to maintain salvation or keep from losing salvation. We are attempting to be saved by works.

That is the argument being waged. Some will say our salvation is dependent of how much fruit we produce. Or us continuing to produce fruit and not stoping.

Did you miss her whole point? She was saying that if we continue to smash each other, we will destroy each other. I happen to agree with her.

I know the Lord does not like division in his church. So how can I have my beliefs and you have yours and not have division in the church?

 

[benhur]

So you can't say 'saved' in the past tense until you get to heaven and see if you made it. And if you don't get to heaven, you must not have been 'saved' but you'll know at any rate. Sizzle . . . pop . . . burn!

There are those that declare that they are saved, and are really not. Would you agree with me?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In your mind, that may be, but not in my mind. And it will be Jesus who judges what we have done as to whether we have EL or not.

See you just proved your trying to earn your salvation.

Now live up to it man, if it is your faith, live up to it. Stop denying it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you miss her whole point? She was saying that if we continue to smash each other, we will destroy each other. I happen to agree with her.

I know the Lord does not like division in his church. So how can I have my beliefs and you have yours and not have division in the church?

We have different gospels. Only one is right, not both. In this case, there will always be divisions.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

There are those that declare that they are saved, and are really not. Would you agree with me?

There are "professors" of religion and there are 'possessors' of Christ. In the final analyses I have no idea who is 'truly' saved . . . but I sure do know that I am saved.

" . . . I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (II Timothy 1:12).

 

[benhur]

I notice you use the word saved in it's past tense form. How is that possible when it can still be lost?

If the Lord said, Thou hast been cleansed. Does that mean you will stay cleansed? Not. There is usually a warning to remain cleansed and not fall back into the filth of this world. Same with Thou hast been saved. Now do not fall back into the filth of this world.