Not By Works

[gb9]

walls of text, telling us how to work for salvation. yawn.

 

[Endoscopy]

Fruit of the spirit is different than works..,

You can have works without fruit, but if you truly have fruit of love, joy,peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control...you will be lead by the Spirit to do works

Works and fruit are not the same thing.

Jesus used the term fruits to be works. He said by their fruits (works) you shall know them. Works are produced when a person has faith in Jesus. While normally works are associated with Christians non Christians have their version of works. Criminal activity and other breaking of man's and God's laws.

 

[Endoscopy]

Nope. The Holy spirit is what separates the sheep and wolves..,,wolves can even preform miracles in Jesus name and yet Jesus will tell them to depart from Him.

The Holy spirit changes hearts not just external actions but also internal motives.

Most do not do miracles. Therefore you look at their fruits like Jesus stated. Miracles or not their fruits proclaim who they are.

 

[Ariel82]

Most do not do miracles. Therefore you look at their fruits like Jesus stated. Miracles or not their fruits proclaim who they are.

If folks are in Christ, they would not be proclaiming who they are but who Christ is and living their message wi4h more than just words.

You don't have to answer, but I wonder had have you shared Christ with another today?

Personally I haven't but it's morning of a new day. Maybe God will show a way.

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus used the term fruits to be works. He said by their fruits (works) you shall know them. Works are produced when a person has faith in Jesus. While normally works are associated with Christians non Christians have their version of works. Criminal activity and other breaking of man's and God's laws.

That's the whole point..,Jesus used fruit not works. If he meant works, he would have said it.

 

[Ariel82]

Fruit of righteous shows that the wisdom spoken is heavenly and not demonic,....

James 3

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[Ariel82]

Hmmm what do you think is meant by "works" in the above verses? His words?

What does it mean by "weakness of wisdom"?

 

[lakusa]

JOSHUA 1V8,SAY,This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus said Seek first the Kingdom of God and all else will be added.

The New Covenant doesn't just give you a book of laws to memorize and try and follow. God gives us His holy spirit as a teacher and guide and writes not upon tablets of stone that must be examined outwardly but tablets of our heart that reveals the true nature of what it means to be a born again children of God: His priests, our bodies: His Holy temple.

 

[Endoscopy]

If folks are in Christ, they would not be proclaiming who they are but who Christ is and living their message wi4h more than just words.

You don't have to answer, but I wonder had have you shared Christ with another today?

Personally I haven't but it's morning of a new day. Maybe God will show a way.

I am 73 and in 3 different churches have served as deacon and elder. (moved twice). At present I am disabled and unable to leave my house without being driven anywhere. Therefore currently unable to witness except on line. I use secular forums to do this. I have found that even though 5 scientific laws prove big bang evolution is false atheists run from this fact. They refuse to admit it to themselves and laugh at the concept of God. Frustrating since they are rejecting Jesus and will be condemned at judgement. It proves the scripture stating the carnal mind is enmity against God.

 

[Endoscopy]

Jesus said Seek first the Kingdom of God and all else will be added.

The New Covenant doesn't just give you a book of laws to memorize and try and follow. God gives us His holy spirit as a teacher and guide and writes not upon tablets of stone that must be examined outwardly but tablets of our heart that reveals the true nature of what it means to be a born again children of God: His priests, our bodies: His Holy temple.

Simple facts.
1. Jesus stated the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear.
2. Transgression of the law is sin.
3. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
4. The wages of sin is death
5. Jesus as the unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed himself for us.
6. Anyone accepting Jesus as his savior is saved by grace through faith.

The gospel message in a nut shell.

 

[Endoscopy]

Addendum caused by the 5 minute rule .
Having been an electronics and software engineer for 40 years I use the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). I apply this to the Bible as seen in my previous post. It works well for many issues.

 

[Ariel82]

Simple facts.
1. Jesus stated the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear.
2. Transgression of the law is sin.
3. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
4. The wages of sin is death
5. Jesus as the unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed himself for us.
6. Anyone accepting Jesus as his savior is saved by grace through faith.

The gospel message in a nut shell.

You state this and then add works.,,

 

[Ariel82]

I am 73 and in 3 different churches have served as deacon and elder. (moved twice). At present I am disabled and unable to leave my house without being driven anywhere. Therefore currently unable to witness except on line. I use secular forums to do this. I have found that even though 5 scientific laws prove big bang evolution is false atheists run from this fact. They refuse to admit it to themselves and laugh at the concept of God. Frustrating since they are rejecting Jesus and will be condemned at judgement. It proves the scripture stating the carnal mind is enmity against God.

Sorry to hear about your disability but glad you are able to find a ministry online and that you were able to serve as deacon/elder in your church.

It seems a common story for those who regularly post on the forums to be homebound for some reason.

 

[benhur]

Then explain to me why gospel preaching denominations use pouring and sprinkling. Many years ago I did research on this and found 2 possible words that could be the root of the word baptism. One was dying cloth and the other was a variation of washing of feet. One implies immersion while the other implies pouring and sprinkling. I have posted this before. This is an issue where we have to agree to disagree and POLITELY make our point. One poster seems to forget this.

I agree, we must be able to agree to disagree, maintaining a Christian love for each other.

My research lead me to a battle on the seas in which it was said that a ship that was so damaged, was baptized in the sea and was not seen again. This secular meaning of the word 'baptize' is used in exactly the same way that we use the word baptize in a religious way, so I was comfortable with this and did no further research.

In a book called The Shepherd of Hermes (I think - it was a long time ago), dated somewhere between 60-100ad, some churches began to sprinkle or pour water over the head because they were in places where there was not a lot of water, so they changed the ordinance to accomidate their circumstances. I, personally would have made a pilgrimage to a place where there was much water and been baptized as was done originally.

Also, when churches began to believe in the baptism of infants, the priest was worried about fully immersing an infant in the water, therefore, again, they changed the ordinance and started sprinkling or pouring.

Originally, John the Baptist and the apostles of Jesus baptized by complete immersion. There are very strong and important symbolisms that exist in a full immersion baptism, the affects of which are not visible when sprinkling or pouring.

So I vote to stay with the original way of baptizing.

 

[VCO]

What false doctrine?
We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith without works is dead.

Everything I stated comes logically from those two Biblical statements.

Those claiming faith and producing no works are claiming a false faith.
Jesus said by their fruits (works) you shall know them.
Jesus said to watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing.

Therefore those claiming faith without works are the wolves!

Currently all of the 7 major protestant denominations have been taken over by the wolves. The gospel is currently being preached in sub denominations. Presbyterian PCA and Missouri Synod Lutheran for example. A little less than half of people go to church. Only a splinter of them hear the gospel. Prebysterian USA was taken over in 1932 as documented in the book Crossed Fingers by Gary North.

Live with these facts!

WORKS ARE NOT PART OF SALVATION, they are PART OF OUR LOVE.


You HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD the Book of JAMES:


Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.




That verse BLOWS all your wild theories, clean out of the Water.


[video=youtube;UHf8rJHs4Lg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHf8rJHs4Lg[/video]

 

[benhur]

<><.t.><>


Name me one Country that does not have a river that flows through it?

Name me one Congregation that could not use the Water to irrigate the Vegetables?

The only reason, is the belief that GOD can do with ONE DROP of Water, what HE can do with a whole River of Water.

But that is NOT the IMMERSION or ONE BAPTISM of:


Ephesians 4:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] There is one body {Spiritual body of Jesus Christ} and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
[SUP]5 [/SUP] one Lord, one faith, one baptism, {immersion into that body}

<><.t.><>


The ONLY form of BAPTISM THAT EVERY SINGLE TRUE BELIEVER participated in, is THIS ONE:


1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


AND THAT IS THE ONLY BAPTISM THAT INCLUDES THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, or any other death bed confession.

I just happen to believe that born of water = baptism by full immersion in water.

I also believe that born of the Spirit = a full immersion of the HS in us.

I believe we need both to be saved, not one or the other.

You do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. You believe that the one baptism that is necessary is the baptism of the HS that brings us into the one body of Christ.

I have been baptized of the HS, fully immersed by his Spirit. So according to you, I am saved. If I think baptism of water is important too, what is that to you, since I have already been saved by the immersion of the HS? Why lecture me on procedure or doctrine? I have done just like what you have done. I have been baptized by one Spirit into one body.

Have you not been baptized by full immersion in water also?

 

[benhur]

Where is your response about explaining why you told this blatant lie!! Then you wonder why I get angry with you. It's your attitude only you have the TRUTH and then resort to a lie!!

I believe decon knows that God hates a liar, therefore if he said something that is not true, I believe he thought is was true. How do we know that English was brought about at the tower of bable or not? The scriptures only says that God confounded their language and dispursed them throughout the whole earth. So it would be difficult to prove one way or the other if English was one of the languages founded at the time of Babel from the scriptures.

So decon could say yes it was and be safe to say it. You could say no, and be safe to say it. Nobody is a liar here.

 

[benhur]

There are good psychological reasons as well. I learned it the hard way. A man destroyed my adoption of some of my children by helping them run away. He ignored one and she stayed with us. It took a long time to forgive him.

You were right to forgive, as God forgives your trespasses against him, all of them. That is Jesus's point.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


3748. hostis, hétis, ho ti ►
Strong's Concordance
hostis, hétis, ho ti: whoever, anyone who
Original Word: ὅστις, ἥτις, ὅτι
Part of Speech: Relative Pronoun
Transliteration: hostis, hétis, ho ti
Phonetic Spelling: (hos'-tis)
Short Definition: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Definition: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever.

4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.



many in this thread lie and say they believe this

but they twist meanings of words

reject actual context of verses
and push works or the law to add to how eternal life is GIVEN to Gods children



that is not of God
that is actually a false religion of man