Not By Works

[benhur]

Or those who are afraid of admitting which type of church they go to.

If you are ignoring me, why would you snip at me?

I will answer your question about God. Yes, I believe there is only one God, and there are no other Gods.

 

[Studyman]

It looks like to me that everything Studyman is 'lying about and peddling', is coming right straight out of the bible. So can the bible lie?

This forum is to discuss, with maturity, the differences that Christians have, as we try to establish the right path to eternal life.
For you to tell one Christian to stop lying and peddling his nonsense tells me you need to grow up and learn to hear other people and their views. You do have the opportunity to tell them what you think is the right path, but just because your path is different than another Christian does not give you the right to persecute or malign another Christians path.

I guarantee you that Studyman has spent countless hours in the bible studying how one is saved, he does not deserve to be called a liar. Do you know what the Lord thinks of a liar, he hates them. Studyman would never knowingly lie about this subject. Nor would VCO, decon, truthtalk, or any other person on this forum.

So state your case as persuasively as you can, listen to the other person, take what that person says and respond kindly and rationally and perhaps with your bible learning you will persuade another Christian to your path and all will be well. If not, then part friends and each to their own understanding of the bible passages associated with how we are saved.

Thanks for the encouraging Words BH, but I have also been guilty of letting anger and frustration come through my posts, to my shame. I think I am on this forum to learn how to properly deal with disagreements and ridicule. More than once I have laid awake at nights thinking, "I can't believe I let this person or that person get my goat".

I have learned a lot from others on the forum, both in what scriptures say, and how to deal with the offences Jesus said "would" come.

I am thankful for the lessons, humiliation and all.

You have a wonderful day.

 

[Chester]

does anyone perfectly keep the law? no.

is anyone sinless? no

can anyone do enough good works to earn salvation? no.

does faith in Christ save ? yes!


if you or anyone else finds these words insulting, then you have your heart set on something other than salvation through Christ.

Is anyone sinless? Actually, yes, and if He was not sinless, He could not have redeemed us!

 

[Endoscopy]

It looks like to me that everything Studyman is 'lying about and peddling', is coming right straight out of the bible. So can the bible lie?

This forum is to discuss, with maturity, the differences that Christians have, as we try to establish the right path to eternal life.
For you to tell one Christian to stop lying and peddling his nonsense tells me you need to grow up and learn to hear other people and their views. You do have the opportunity to tell them what you think is the right path, but just because your path is different than another Christian does not give you the right to persecute or malign another Christians path.

I guarantee you that Studyman has spent countless hours in the bible studying how one is saved, he does not deserve to be called a liar. Do you know what the Lord thinks of a liar, he hates them. Studyman would never knowingly lie about this subject. Nor would VCO, decon, truthtalk, or any other person on this forum.

So state your case as persuasively as you can, listen to the other person, take what that person says and respond kindly and rationally and perhaps with your bible learning you will persuade another Christian to your path and all will be well. If not, then part friends and each to their own understanding of the bible passages associated with how we are saved.

I agree. I have many disagreements with him. Disagreements started in the early church In the 200s the Roman Creed was created and by 390 was updated to the Apostles Creed. Thus defining what doctrine is essential to be a Christian. Outside of this doctrine it was and is agree to disagree.

THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. This is an upgrade of the Roman Creed created in the 200s. This Creed is dated to 312 but first record of what it states is 390.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Probable wording of the Roman Creed.

Roman Creed

I believe in God the Father almighty, and in Christ Jesus, his only Son, our Lord, and in the Holy Spirit, the holy Church, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the flesh.

 

[Ariel82]

You get a bit too emotional when arguing about issues at times.

An example is works.
Faith is what saves
Faith without works is dead.
Therefore works must exist for faith to be real.

You keep saying works not required for salvation.
No works, no faith. This is the issue making works required.

In the winter time after the trees all lose their leaves....is it no longer a tree because it has no leaves?


In the spring when the tree only has flowers and no fruit, is it no longer a tree?

Yes if you look at the lifetime of a believer you will see fruit and good works, but if you just take a snap shot of their life...,.they may be going through a season when there is not fruit or no good works present.

.it doesn't make them any less a child of God...anymore than a tree in the winter or spring stops being a tree because it has no fruit on its branches.

 

[Ariel82]

Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
How can you "Rely" on Jesus to "walk" for you, to "obey Him" for you, when the Bible says you will be judged by "Your Works". He says Himself.

First relying on Jesus is scriptural. We rely that He will lead us and keep us on the right path.

Second,two types of judgement. One for salvation and one for heavenly rewards and treasures. Salvation is not a reard given for our good works. Salvation is by faith in Jesus alone. You will be judged as either building upon the Rock, Jesus or upon shifting sand, anything else...when it comes to eternal life.

Good world will either stand or be burnt in the fire...

Like a child who builds a house.,,will it stand or will it fall?

 

[Ariel82]

Or whether or not they go to church. I've admitted I don't any longer.

I am curious, why not?

Some people are on here, can't for health reasons.
.our church have people who used to attend but can't. They are trying to put together a visitation team so folks who can't make service can still be a part of the church.

You don't have to answer.

Just praying you still get to fellowship with other believers face to face even if it's not in a traditional church building

 

[Rosemaryx]

In the winter time after the trees all lose their leaves....is it no longer a tree because it has no leaves?


In the spring when the tree only has flowers and no fruit, is it no longer a tree?

Yes if you look at the lifetime of a believer you will see fruit and good works, but if you just take a snap shot of their life...,.they may be going through a season when there is not fruit or no good works present.

.it doesn't make them any less a child of God...anymore than a tree in the winter or spring stops being a tree because it has no fruit on its branches.

Thank you Ariel , I found your post comforting...xox...

 

[Studyman]

First relying on Jesus is scriptural. We rely that He will lead us and keep us on the right path.

Second,two types of judgement. One for salvation and one for heavenly rewards and treasures. Salvation is not a reard given for our good works. Salvation is by faith in Jesus alone. You will be judged as either building upon the Rock, Jesus or upon shifting sand, anything else...when it comes to eternal life.

Good world will either stand or be burnt in the fire...

Like a child who builds a house.,,will it stand or will it fall?

I know the story.

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

And again:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Jesus has already lived and walked the Path of "Good Works" which God hath "Before ordained" that we should "Walk in them" and has proven them as un-burnable. These works have already been proven. We need look no further than Jesus, the Author and Finisher of my Faith. He is the "end (Intent) of the Law for Righteousness". Not man's religious traditions, not our own version of love, but the "Good Work's" created by God that we should walk in them.

This is my belief.

 

[Endoscopy]

I am curious, why not?

Some people are on here, can't for health reasons.
.our church have people who used to attend but can't. They are trying to put together a visitation team so folks who can't make service can still be a part of the church.

You don't have to answer.

Just praying you still get to fellowship with other believers face to face even if it's not in a traditional church building

There are a variety of reasons that people don't attend church. In my wife's case she was in a Bible study group and was attacked for being compassionate to a friend and told information she learned in a study that discussed the health of her daughter. We are Reformed in our theology and hard to find a church near us. She hates to drive and I can't drive any more. Nearest one is 30 miles and in the center of town. My wife goes to a woman's Bible study.

 

[gb9]

Thanks for the encouraging Words BH, but I have also been guilty of letting anger and frustration come through my posts, to my shame. I think I am on this forum to learn how to properly deal with disagreements and ridicule. More than once I have laid awake at nights thinking, "I can't believe I let this person or that person get my goat".

I have learned a lot from others on the forum, both in what scriptures say, and how to deal with the offences Jesus said "would" come.

I am thankful for the lessons, humiliation and all.

You have a wonderful day.

do unto others as you would have them do unto you. you don't want to be mocked and ridiculed. well, I don't either.

speak to us respectfully , stop with the " you are deceived... " tell us. explain how. respectfully.

I can't speak for others, but I give you my word- respect me, don't call me " deceived by.... " and I will respect you.

 

[Ariel82]

There are a variety of reasons that people don't attend church. In my wife's case she was in a Bible study group and was attacked for being compassionate to a friend and told information she learned in a study that discussed the health of her daughter. We are Reformed in our theology and hard to find a church near us. She hates to drive and I can't drive any more. Nearest one is 30 miles and in the center of town. My wife goes to a woman's Bible study.

I still count that as going to church...just not church service.

 

[Ariel82]

Thanks for the encouraging Words BH, but I have also been guilty of letting anger and frustration come through my posts, to my shame. I think I am on this forum to learn how to properly deal with disagreements and ridicule. More than once I have laid awake at nights thinking, "I can't believe I let this person or that person get my goat".

I have learned a lot from others on the forum, both in what scriptures say, and how to deal with the offences Jesus said "would" come.

I am thankful for the lessons, humiliation and all.

You have a wonderful day.

Definitely a lesson in patience and humilty here. Hope you are having a blessed day too....and learning not to take what others say too personally.

We have to forgive,,,,others and ourselves.

 

[Endoscopy]

I know the story.

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

And again:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Jesus has already lived and walked the Path of "Good Works" which God hath "Before ordained" that we should "Walk in them" and has proven them as un-burnable. These works have already been proven. We need look no further than Jesus, the Author and Finisher of my Faith. He is the "end (Intent) of the Law for Righteousness". Not man's religious traditions, not our own version of love, but the "Good Work's" created by God that we should walk in them.

This is my belief.

In a way I agree but take into consideration the following Biblical statements. I am using logic here. Had it in college and used it in digital electronics.

We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith without works is dead (No works no faith)
Therefore works is a mandatory outcome of faith.
It doesn't save but is evidence to others of our faith.
Thus proving we are not wolves among the sheep.

Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them." and then gave examples of good and bad fruit. We are to look at the fruit of others.

 

[BillG]

Thanks for the encouraging Words BH, but I have also been guilty of letting anger and frustration come through my posts, to my shame. I think I am on this forum to learn how to properly deal with disagreements and ridicule. More than once I have laid awake at nights thinking, "I can't believe I let this person or that person get my goat".

I have learned a lot from others on the forum, both in what scriptures say, and how to deal with the offences Jesus said "would" come.

I am thankful for the lessons, humiliation and all.

You have a wonderful day.

I get ya.

I also lay awake knowing that I have been guilty at going at people in an unloving way.
As you know because you have been on the end of it. For which in the past I have apologised. And if I haven't done so I do so now.

I say the same to others as well.

The thing is that people and culture can come across in a way that was not intended.
Us Brits even apologise to people who have offended even if we haven't given them a cause to offend us.

Trouble is we see words and that's it.

A good principle is to speak and interact with others how we would want them to do with us.
Also getting to know the person.

 

[benhur]

if someone attaches a word to a definition to another word, that the word does not have, then I would call that a lie.

now, if he , or anyone, says " in my opinion ", or something like that, then that is fine. we are all free to have opinions . but, studyman gives out his opinions as FACTS, then accuses any who disagrees with his OPINIONS of " being corrupted by a catholic / religious tradition. "

so, there is someone who belittles others who have deeply studied the Bible for years, as if they know nothing. it ain't me.

I understand your point. There is, however, a way to express your disapointment without calling him a liar?

 

[Ariel82]

In a way I agree but take into consideration the following Biblical statements. I am using logic here. Had it in college and used it in digital electronics.

We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith without works is dead (No works no faith)
Therefore works is a mandatory outcome of faith.
It doesn't save but is evidence to others of our faith.
Thus proving we are not wolves among the sheep.

Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them." and then gave examples of good and bad fruit. We are to look at the fruit of others.

I understand the scriptures differently...I believe God wants us to test the doctrines others teach us and look at the fruit it produces in our own hearts and minds.


Does the doctrine make us more prideful or more humble? More loving or more condemning? More adapt to forgive or seek revenge?

People prefer to look at the speck in another's eyes and not remove the plank out of their own.

 

[BillG]

In the winter time after the trees all lose their leaves....is it no longer a tree because it has no leaves?


In the spring when the tree only has flowers and no fruit, is it no longer a tree?

Yes if you look at the lifetime of a believer you will see fruit and good works, but if you just take a snap shot of their life...,.they may be going through a season when there is not fruit or no good works present.

.it doesn't make them any less a child of God...anymore than a tree in the winter or spring stops being a tree because it has no fruit on its branches.

I must spread it around a bit before I can rep you again.

Repped from Bill.

 

[benhur]

Thanks for the encouraging Words BH, but I have also been guilty of letting anger and frustration come through my posts, to my shame. I think I am on this forum to learn how to properly deal with disagreements and ridicule. More than once I have laid awake at nights thinking, "I can't believe I let this person or that person get my goat".

I have learned a lot from others on the forum, both in what scriptures say, and how to deal with the offences Jesus said "would" come.

I am thankful for the lessons, humiliation and all.

You have a wonderful day.

We have all had our silly posts that we wish we could take back. So we repent and do better the next time. Thanks for your words, we all have room to improve, and maybe this forum is a learning ground for us all to be more patient and understanding and loving. Good thought.

 

[star]

I am curious, why not?

Some people are on here, can't for health reasons.
.our church have people who used to attend but can't. They are trying to put together a visitation team so folks who can't make service can still be a part of the church.

You don't have to answer.

Just praying you still get to fellowship with other believers face to face even if it's not in a traditional church building

On an earlier post under this thread I explained my reasoning. But it's so far back on the thread that I'll explain again.

There was a time my husband and I needed help with a life situation and no one came to our aid. We have been going to that church for a long time, got married there, and my husband actually grew up there. The church has become so big (over 500) that unless you are there every time the doors are open, well your probably are forgotten about. And btw, no one has even called to see what has happened to us. That tells me a lot.

Anyway, yes we have fellowship with other believers and we know that God is with us.