His modus operandi......he is a works/attempted law abiding salvationists......period!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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His modus operandi......he is a works/attempted law abiding salvationists......period!
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.
ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)
Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.
ElAmor
What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?
If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?
dcon’s reply;
Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!
ElAmor
If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.
It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )
Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.
Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?
They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.
Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?
They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.
1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
New International Version 1984 Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. WAKE UP! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. BUT IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. HE WHO HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR what the Spirit says to the churches.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Ever talk to someone who thinks talking louder and repeating themselves over and over again somehow changes other people's responses or makes their points any clearer?
Sometimes short and brief is easier to communicate.
Sometimes short and brief is easier to communicate.
J
joefizz
Guest
All can discuss in the thread mentioned above and clarify "clearly" what they believe and why.
You are deliberately being Sarcastic.
You see, I was a Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain, for 15 years. I fervently, as anyone else, poured out my heart as I ministered to those Inmates. It was GOD's LOVE in my heart that was flowing out of me, even to the inmate that had no clothes on and every square inch of his body was covered in his own feces. He was trying to be as Offensive to the Correctional Officers, as he could be. My mind was being controlled by JESUS, and GOD's LOVE was Flowing out of me, when I noticed that I could not smell him anymore. AND you just made fun of it.
1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
NOTICE: It does not say the normal Human Love, it says:
—how can God’s love reside in him?
How did it get there?
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
All of our righteous deeds done for the WRONG MOTIVE,
are no more than A PILE OF FILTHY RAGS TO GOD.
You apparently do them for the WRONG MOTIVE of trying to add to your SALVATION.
Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] All of us have become like one who is unclean, and
all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Correct me if i'm wrong Sir( i must have a hearing and reading comprehension problem accdg to Dr. Ariel) but do you mean all along that noone here rejects the truth that "Faith without works is Dead"? If that's the case then praise God!!! Then everyone here believes that a DEAD FAITH cannot save. Am I correct? If your answer is YES then accept my apology but please answer with a YES or NO so I can confirm it. Thanks bro and hope to hear from you soon.
A
Ariel82
Guest
The answer is Yes...,.
The full answer is Yes a living faith will lead to good works but the good works don't save....,it's only the living faith.
The full answer is Yes a living faith will lead to good works but the good works don't save....,it's only the living faith.
A
Ariel82
Guest
I like chocolate and ice cream and believe you should get me some, can we talk about that?
Lol just kidding.
Seriously what we believe is a very big topic, will be interesting what you get on the thread. Most people don't carry a statement of Faith ready to hand in upon request.
YES, none that I know of, HOWEVER we do not connect those works, as being part of our SALVATION. We believe that GOD, the MOMENT HE SAVED US, HE had the HOLY SPIRIT pour out HIS LOVE directly into our hearts. GOD's LOVE manifests itself out in our works, as an act of LOVE.
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and
sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
SEE: It is not a part of SALVATION, but HOW in us, GOD's LOVE will manifest it's way out in our works.
You Have to have already been SAVED or Born Again, to have GOD's LOVE inside of you. So HOW on earth can we TAKE credit for WHAT GOD IS DOING IN OUR LIVES.
1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has this world’s goods and
sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
If anyone cannot understand that verse, look how the New Century Version words it:
1 John 3:17 (NCV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Suppose someone has enough to live and sees a brother or sister in need, but does not help.
Then God’s love is not living in that person.
There it is, is that simple enough for you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has this world’s goods and
sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
If anyone cannot understand that verse, look how the New Century Version words it:
1 John 3:17 (NCV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Suppose someone has enough to live and sees a brother or sister in need, but does not help.
Then God’s love is not living in that person.
There it is, is that simple enough for you?
Bumping this for anyone that missed it. Some good points.
John MacArthur (Copy/paste)...
"If your hope of eternal life is tied to the consistency of your earthly obedience, what hope is that? When you compare your obedience to the divine standard, when you compare yourself with the holiness of God, how do you measure up? A thousand lifetimes wouldn’t enable me to perfect holiness before an absolutely holy God; a thousand lifetimes would only reveal how utterly corrupt I truly am.
There’s no hope in the doctrine of conditional security. None at all. In fact, ever since that first encounter with someone who believed he could lose his salvation, I’ve met a number of people with the same fear. They constantly fret over the possibility they’ve unwittingly forfeited their salvation, having committed a sin so bad that God has disowned them"
"Not only do I believe the doctrine of conditional security is false, I would even dare to say it is blasphemous. The idea that you could lose the salvation God gave you slanders God and runs contrary to a number of the Bible’s core doctrines."
"Beyond the impossible burden of maintaining personal salvation, the doctrine of conditional security also strikes a blow against the power of God. To say you can lose your salvation—which the Bible says God accomplished through the death of Jesus Christ—is to make God into an impotent deity with no actual power to save anyone. The full exercise of His divine power is at the mercy of a weak, finite, and sinful creature who may or may not cooperate with Him"
John MacArthur (Copy/paste)...
"If your hope of eternal life is tied to the consistency of your earthly obedience, what hope is that? When you compare your obedience to the divine standard, when you compare yourself with the holiness of God, how do you measure up? A thousand lifetimes wouldn’t enable me to perfect holiness before an absolutely holy God; a thousand lifetimes would only reveal how utterly corrupt I truly am.
There’s no hope in the doctrine of conditional security. None at all. In fact, ever since that first encounter with someone who believed he could lose his salvation, I’ve met a number of people with the same fear. They constantly fret over the possibility they’ve unwittingly forfeited their salvation, having committed a sin so bad that God has disowned them"
"Not only do I believe the doctrine of conditional security is false, I would even dare to say it is blasphemous. The idea that you could lose the salvation God gave you slanders God and runs contrary to a number of the Bible’s core doctrines."
"Beyond the impossible burden of maintaining personal salvation, the doctrine of conditional security also strikes a blow against the power of God. To say you can lose your salvation—which the Bible says God accomplished through the death of Jesus Christ—is to make God into an impotent deity with no actual power to save anyone. The full exercise of His divine power is at the mercy of a weak, finite, and sinful creature who may or may not cooperate with Him"
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”[/FONT]
Faith alone saves....(A) any works, fruit produced is Christ through us as a living sacrifice....and SAVED BELIEVERS have already done the works of the Heavenly Father by BELIEVING ON THE ONE WHOM HE SENT......regardless....believers can and do have every flavor of works to be found....some Good some bad....any good the result of point A above and exactly why Jesus gets all the glory!
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”[/FONT]
2 Timothy 2:14-26 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work. Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
I respect anyone who maintains a good moral outlook on life.
I lose this respect if they start saying being realistic in ones language to reflect what
actually happens in peoples lives is not blasphemous, but rather the theology has gone
wrong and too extreme.
The chosen will always reach heaven. That is a given, but we are not to know who they
are because love does not take pride in its position but gives, shares and serves.
The deep mystery is about real spiritual revelation and coming into communion with the living
God, so that we become one with Him. This is a stunning privilege, but how can we conceive
such a thing. But Jesus calls us friends, not servants, brothers and sisters. Paul calls us Holy,
pure, clean, washed by the blood and made into Holy Temples of the Holy Spirit.
We have such a bad view of what God has purified, and dismiss the very vessels He has chosen
to exalt. Life and love are far simpler with a pure heart than many imagine. The worries and anxiety
of this world, dreams of wealth, of status, privilege, recognition, achievement are just that, dreams,
yet this other life will always be somewhere else, while in Christ we have actually arrived.
The world of technology, status, information, lack of good relationships, of love shown on ones sleeve
has robbed people of the very riches Christ has given them, in eternity and here in the body of
Christ. Spend some time and let the Holy Spirit minister to you, and let Him show you what is
truly matters, and how He has cleansed you. You are a precious child of God, so begin to recognise
this and walk in the grace He provides. Amen.
A
Ariel82
Guest
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!