A
Ariel82
Guest
By the Holy Spirit...which God says He will do for what parent when their child ask for a fish, gives them a serpent?
Not By Works
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By the Holy Spirit...which God says He will do for what parent when their child ask for a fish, gives them a serpent?
I understand the connection between faith and works. *Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. *No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
There is a big difference between "works prove a valid faith" and works are required for salvation. A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith, but BECAUSE it's a living faith; just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree, but BECAUSE it's a living tree.
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Ariel82
Guest
El Amor you have a reading and hearing problem.
We can lift you up in prayer and hope God will fix that for you because you obviously not understanding what I have said or what dcon believes.
As for a questions look at the story of Martha and Mary, and answer why Jesus spoke as He did?
Why did God instate the Year of Jubilee?
Do you understand how the Sabbath rest is found in Christ or do you follow Saturday Sabbath law keepers, (we have many on the forum who do and are preach and condemning anyone who do not believe as they do.)
***************
I believe that salvation is by Faith alone and even that faith is a gift from God that transforms our hearts and allows us to accept the Gospel message. By our own power we are lost and wandering in darkness, but by the power of God we are adopted into the family of God.
I dislike people who try and force babies to work in sweat shops but do believe that in time we should all learn and become mature Christian grounded in Christ.
As for faith with out works...I refer to Leviticus 19
23“When you come into the land and plant any kind of tree for food, then you shall regard its fruit as forbidden.b Three years it shall be forbidden to you; it must not be eaten. 24And in the fourth year all its fruit shall be holy, an offering of praise to the LORD. 25But in the fifth year you may eat of its fruit, to increase its yield for you: I am the LORD your God.
*****
Sometimes God's timing is not what the world sees. Yes all true born again Christians will bear fruit but it may take five years before impatient people without the spiritual eyes to see God working in someone's life will see the change.
It is not the work or the fruit that saves. It is God and His Holy spirit that adopts us as His children even though we can do nothing to earn it.
We can lift you up in prayer and hope God will fix that for you because you obviously not understanding what I have said or what dcon believes.
As for a questions look at the story of Martha and Mary, and answer why Jesus spoke as He did?
Why did God instate the Year of Jubilee?
Do you understand how the Sabbath rest is found in Christ or do you follow Saturday Sabbath law keepers, (we have many on the forum who do and are preach and condemning anyone who do not believe as they do.)
***************
I believe that salvation is by Faith alone and even that faith is a gift from God that transforms our hearts and allows us to accept the Gospel message. By our own power we are lost and wandering in darkness, but by the power of God we are adopted into the family of God.
I dislike people who try and force babies to work in sweat shops but do believe that in time we should all learn and become mature Christian grounded in Christ.
As for faith with out works...I refer to Leviticus 19
23“When you come into the land and plant any kind of tree for food, then you shall regard its fruit as forbidden.b Three years it shall be forbidden to you; it must not be eaten. 24And in the fourth year all its fruit shall be holy, an offering of praise to the LORD. 25But in the fifth year you may eat of its fruit, to increase its yield for you: I am the LORD your God.
*****
Sometimes God's timing is not what the world sees. Yes all true born again Christians will bear fruit but it may take five years before impatient people without the spiritual eyes to see God working in someone's life will see the change.
It is not the work or the fruit that saves. It is God and His Holy spirit that adopts us as His children even though we can do nothing to earn it.
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Ariel82
Guest
Are you calling Dcon a zombie.....not very mature. What happened to the love and wisdom spoken about in, James 3?
Kind of sadden,thought we could have a mature conversation, but maybe not.
Also why do you keep reposting others words without quotes?
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Ariel82
Guest
Sarcasm?
We should do as God calls us but depending on the ministry, some training might be needed so we don't do more harm than good.
Preaching the gospel seems easy for some, but discipleship and sound doctrine takes longer.
I know folks who are part of the Kairos ministry and they get hours of training before entering the prisons. I know they spend months in prayer and prep time.
When someone sits in prayer they may seem to the world to be doing nothing but prayer has the ability to move mountains and make crooked paths straight.
We should NOT do works out of fear for he'll but love for GOD. WE should not do it to EARN salvation but because WE ARE SAVED.
Do you understand the difference?
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Ariel82
Guest
"You are mixed up"
"Zombie"
Hmmm where does this "wisdom" come from?
I think I need to take time and pray.
Cyl
"Zombie"
Hmmm where does this "wisdom" come from?
I think I need to take time and pray.
Cyl
Apparently Jesus didn't feel that visiting those in prison is pure delusion.
Matthew 25:41-43
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
I find some interactions interesting, because they speak more than one can imagine.
Some claim innocence while condemning people to hell, calling them preaching words
of the enemy. Now it does not take much wisdom to realize when the enemy speaks
he speaks against the word of God, and Gods word speaks clearly back.
Those who speak against a Holy walk, speak against Gods word.
Now how one interprets the words and work it out, are for us to discuss and debate,
but we cannot contradict Gods word. It is innate within our faith.
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8
These may appear hard words. Listen to Gods word it is living, it refines us,
questions us, causes us to resolve things, speaks to sin and guilt, and brings
Christ, His blood and body, through repentance and faith to bring resolution.
This is no idle journey, but the true spiritual battle within. The flesh and its
passions will always rebel against such ideas, but each day we bring the
cross and put to death, put to death, the things of the flesh.
Now I would love to be light, superficial and encouraging, but this is the depth
of Jesus and His love, cleansing and purifying us, in our hearts, so the stream of
living water will flow from our hearts, like the eternal stream of life He promised.
To resist this is to resist God and the cross. Our minds cry there must be another
way, and the pain and cost is too high. But this is the point, there is no other way
and Jesus put it like this
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 10:39
The assumption is people have met Christ by spending decades in church, and yet
come denying the simple fundamentals of the reality of the heart. Blind teachers
and sharers who wish to rebuke and correct others while justifying sinful behaviour
and their lack of resolution. Unfortunately they just load up judgement on themselves
for the day of judgement when all things will be brought to a reconning.
And to even fear such a day and the Lord who brings it is rejected as if He is not
listening and knows not what He is sharing and why.
If you know God who does not change and did not forgive Korah and his rebellion,
should take great care that this God should not be mocked or rebelled against,
because His judgement will fall, and His ways will be established no matter what man
thinks or does.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:28-29
But then the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. If some have not learnt
this first lesson, nothing else can be taken as spoken with any authority at all.
Some claim innocence while condemning people to hell, calling them preaching words
of the enemy. Now it does not take much wisdom to realize when the enemy speaks
he speaks against the word of God, and Gods word speaks clearly back.
Those who speak against a Holy walk, speak against Gods word.
Now how one interprets the words and work it out, are for us to discuss and debate,
but we cannot contradict Gods word. It is innate within our faith.
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8
These may appear hard words. Listen to Gods word it is living, it refines us,
questions us, causes us to resolve things, speaks to sin and guilt, and brings
Christ, His blood and body, through repentance and faith to bring resolution.
This is no idle journey, but the true spiritual battle within. The flesh and its
passions will always rebel against such ideas, but each day we bring the
cross and put to death, put to death, the things of the flesh.
Now I would love to be light, superficial and encouraging, but this is the depth
of Jesus and His love, cleansing and purifying us, in our hearts, so the stream of
living water will flow from our hearts, like the eternal stream of life He promised.
To resist this is to resist God and the cross. Our minds cry there must be another
way, and the pain and cost is too high. But this is the point, there is no other way
and Jesus put it like this
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 10:39
The assumption is people have met Christ by spending decades in church, and yet
come denying the simple fundamentals of the reality of the heart. Blind teachers
and sharers who wish to rebuke and correct others while justifying sinful behaviour
and their lack of resolution. Unfortunately they just load up judgement on themselves
for the day of judgement when all things will be brought to a reconning.
And to even fear such a day and the Lord who brings it is rejected as if He is not
listening and knows not what He is sharing and why.
If you know God who does not change and did not forgive Korah and his rebellion,
should take great care that this God should not be mocked or rebelled against,
because His judgement will fall, and His ways will be established no matter what man
thinks or does.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:28-29
But then the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. If some have not learnt
this first lesson, nothing else can be taken as spoken with any authority at all.
Hi VCO, thank you for trying to help this troubled soul; His only purpose for being here on CC is to throw around insults like he just did. He will be here for a time as he baits unsuspecting Christians into engaging him in endless and fruitless arguments.
Proceed as you will just be careful of insincere posters down range.....
Like I have already mentioned, there are those from a closed down site who are infiltrating this site and their agendas will show through more and more.
I fear this precious site will have a real challenge now. One may have to use the ignore button more than what they have had to do thus far.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am confused. You came in saying you do not believe one works for salvation. Now your saying you do believe it?
You said you do not have faiht in eternal life. Yet John said it is our hope of eternal life and faith in that hope that is the root of our continued faith in the name of Christ. Can you explain why you have yet to find this faith?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
People will go to hell for many good works. Because they tried to give those works to God as payment for their sin.
I just pray this is not what you believe. We believe one does all those works out of gratitude and love for what God did for them. Not out of obligation and law and doing them for self righteous means (to gain eternal life)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep. And WHO obey him?
Children of satan, or adopted children of God?
You can not leave that out of the equation. Or else your being deceptive.
There are those that try to make the process of salvation so complicated. You posted a simple truth about salvation.
The above comment on quoting a verse is very odd.
Is quoting scripture without commentary now deceptive?
I did not know sin could be seen as not quoting enough scripture.
Does this mean everytime we quote or say anything we must take
responsibility that people are not deceived by a verse?
Or is this just an insane idea, that somehow scripture is not the word
of God, and active in and of itself. It amazes me that anyone might agree
with the idea of quoting scripture is deceptive.
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thessalonians 4:7
I suppose this is deceptive if we do not explain it, or is it up to the Holy Spirit
to speak to the readers heart and bring revelation? But this will only happen
to the chosen, the rest will stay deceived, which is something to take note of
that we actually only speak to the chosen, and the rest will always get it wrong.
dcon said;
Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!
ElAmor
To get this over with, i want to ask dcon “HOW IS ONE SAVED"?
the bible tells us about it this way;
Romans 10:8-18 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH, “JESUS IS LORD,” AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
It is clear that PREACHING is a WORK necessary for one to BELIEVE and have FAITH and therefore be SAVED.
Another thing we need to notice is that WITH THE HEART WE BELIEVE AND ARE JUSTIFIED and WITH OUR MOUTH WE CONFESS AND ARE SAVED.
Believe and confess are two different words with different meaning, the same as justified and saved.
Romans 10 clearly proves that Salvation is not through Faith ALONE.
BELIEF, FAITH, CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, PREACHING, BAPTISM, OBEDIENCE , FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, WISDOM, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, GOOD WORKS, SERVICE, WORSHIP ETC. ARE ALL WORKS OF SALVATION THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST POSSESS AND DO FOR THE HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE OF GOD OUR FATHER AND HIS ONLY SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
Ephesians 4:1-6 Unity in the Body of Christ As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
dcon said;
Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!
ElAmor
To get this over with, i want to ask dcon “HOW IS ONE SAVED"?
the bible tells us about it this way;
Romans 10:8-18 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH, “JESUS IS LORD,” AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
It is clear that PREACHING is a WORK necessary for one to BELIEVE and have FAITH and therefore be SAVED.
Another thing we need to notice is that WITH THE HEART WE BELIEVE AND ARE JUSTIFIED and WITH OUR MOUTH WE CONFESS AND ARE SAVED.
Believe and confess are two different words with different meaning, the same as justified and saved.
Romans 10 clearly proves that Salvation is not through Faith ALONE.
BELIEF, FAITH, CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, PREACHING, BAPTISM, OBEDIENCE , FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, WISDOM, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, GOOD WORKS, SERVICE, WORSHIP ETC. ARE ALL WORKS OF SALVATION THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST POSSESS AND DO FOR THE HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE OF GOD OUR FATHER AND HIS ONLY SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
Ephesians 4:1-6 Unity in the Body of Christ As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Yep....and who you talking to.....nobody in this thread which means your just bloviaiting hot air.......
Let's check your reading and hearing Ariel. Can you even comprehend this;
1 Corinthians 14:26-40 Orderly Worship What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.