Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

King James Bible
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Context ALERT...Hebrew believers wanting to go back under an inferior way.....NOT the loss of salvation!

 

[dcontroversal]

I missed that post.

As long as they are here no one can say it is not being said here by anyone that we can live any way we want and still be saved.

That is not the only thing you missed.....

 

[NoNameMcgee]

says the guy who doesnt even see hebrews 10 is telling the Jews to quit their sacrifices


a saved believer cannot actually cease to believe

they are a new creature....

born again


those who believe of God and even for a time retain knowledge of Him
and then fall away

never believed IN Him

and He never placed the new heart and spirit in them
or they surely would have continued in faith

______________
Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ


__________

once you are born again
His incorruptible seed remains in you....

1 peter
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


________

1 peter

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


WORDS FROM JESUS
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

bump for "p" because dcon changed the page

 

[dcontroversal]

We know if we have let Jesus and his work do what we can't for ourselves and that we are a part of the kingdom of God by if we are changed and changing.

The person who says they trust Christ and are saved but who lives in sin is a liar. They show by their unchanged life that they do not trust in the work of Jesus Christ. If they did, they'd have the changed/changing life to show for it.


"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

1 John 3:7-8,10


Don't be deceived, people.
Those who live in sin are not born again and belong to the devil.
The new grace doctrine in the church is a lie.
Works do matter.
They don't make you righteous, but they do most definitely matter.

You know Ralph....all can see right trough your fallacies....the only people that agree with you are those who reject grace in favor of a dogma that devalues Christ and enthrones self....works do not matter when it comes to how salvation is obtained....and it is eternal regardless of your drivel.....funny thing...you mouth and mouth about NEW GRACE while pushing, embracing and bloviating CAINOLOGY and pushing the same drivel he pushed...your own works.....

You setting us all straight all right......metronome dogma<---what you push

 

[dcontroversal]

if youre going to keep nit picking and taking bits and pieces of what i say

twist my words
and be so dishonest with your approach

why would i continue to talk to you?

youre not only blind...

youre manipulative


ralph....

you obviously have nothing to offer
i took the time to reply to everything you said honestly

i probably shouldnt expect the same from you at this point...

so i guess its my own fault for expecting an actual discussion


anyways

people with eyes to see can see your fruit clear as day



p.s.

ehhh nevermind

its not like you listen

you hear what you wanna hear

His modus operandi ...........I have yet to see him be honest one time about anything we have said...he has no argument with the truth, but rather his skewed view of the truth........all while pushing his works that prove what exactly.....a saved man is honest, does not twist, embellishing, add to or change the context of what one has said by adding or subtracting words

 

[MichaelOwen]

His modus operandi ...........I have yet to see hi be honest one time about anything we have said...he has no argument with the truth, but rather his skewed view of the truth........all while pushing his works that prove what exactly.....a saved man is honest, does not twist, embellishing, add to or change the context of what one has said by adding or subtracting words

What it really sounds like to me DC, is he is not willing to admit he is a sinner....at all.

 

[dcontroversal]

Please tell me the name of the church that has this doctrine in writing.

I want to see it clearly and explicitly stated and taught by any church/pastor that teaches..... a believer can commit all manner of sin and can live however they want.

I want to see this in writing either as a reference to a book or a link


I will be waiting......

I have a strong feeling you are distorting the message to suit your own twisted attack on the Gospel of Grace

And your assessment would be correct..............

 

[dcontroversal]

The same thing happened to me in "The Law is bad" thread. Certain points that I made in post #152 were deleted and a straw man argument was created in post #160. It's sad how certain people are willing to resort to trickery and deceit (in shady lawyer fashion) in their desperate effort to win an argument at all costs.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/163264-oethe-law-bada-8.html#post3456842

Jesus said to the Pharisees that they were doing the works of their father the devil.........What did their father do in the garden....HE EMBELLISHED and Changed the word that had been given by ADDING to it....

end of story!

 

[finaldesire]

An old Christian friend once said this to me about works and salvation, I just remembered it now.

"No one can earn salvation, it is a free gift from God. But your works determine your place in the kingdom"

Kon.

 

[dcontroversal]

yep. God lied when he said you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. You will NEVER DIE, you will LIVE FOREVER.

He lied when he said he WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU

He lied when he said he HAS PERFECTED YOU FOREVER. And is in the process of SANCTIFYING YOU

God is just a liar. His death on the cross was not sufficient, so he needs people like you and me (sinners) to make up what he failed to do so we can save ourselves.

yeah, whatever man. Good luck saving yourself.

I was going to answer his post, but decided that there was no need.....all of the promises of Christ, verbiage, Greek verb tense, definitions of words, the Greek word translated "in" as applied unto Christ etc. that must be rejected or flat denied to embrace the ignorance in post 55836 goes beyond blind......Job, the oldest book of the bible teaches eternal life and the sins of man being sewn up and removed......those who teach against the eternal security do the following...

eternal and everlasting = temporal
never die - died
sealed = not sealed
finish = unfinished
keep = lose
never leave = left
never forsake = forsaken
kept by = tossed away
justified = found guilty
pass over = seen and judged
gift = earned
not condemned = condemned
faith = works
and on and on and on

YEA....all who say it can be lost deny the power of Christ, the promises of Christ, the word of Christ....they literally throw Jesus under the bus, call him an inept liar that cannot keep his word or do that which he has promised to do....it is as tragic as can be...........and they will pay the ultimate price for eternity

 

[stonesoffire]

An old Christian friend once said this to me about works and salvation, I just remembered it now.

"No one can earn salvation, it is a free gift from God. But your works determine your place in the kingdom"

Kon.

I think there is much truth in this statement, as long as the works are by the Spirit of God and not man trying to please God this way. Goes back to source everytime. And the question of does He know you?

 

[gb9]

I was going to answer his post, but decided that there was no need.....all of the promises of Christ, verbiage, Greek verb tense, definitions of words, the Greek word translated "in" as applied unto Christ etc. that must be rejected or flat denied to embrace the ignorance in post 55836 goes beyond blind......Job, the oldest book of the bible teaches eternal life and the sins of man being sewn up and removed......those who teach against the eternal security do the following...

eternal and everlasting = temporal
never die - died
sealed = not sealed
finish = unfinished
keep = lose
never leave = left
never forsake = forsaken
kept by = tossed away
justified = found guilty
pass over = seen and judged
gift = earned
not condemned = condemned
faith = works
and on and on and on

YEA....all who say it can be lost deny the power of Christ, the promises of Christ, the word of Christ....they literally throw Jesus under the bus, call him an inept liar that cannot keep his word or do that which he has promised to do....it is as tragic as can be...........and they will pay the ultimate price for eternity

if I could add to this list- saved really doesn't mean saved, forgiven really doesn't mean forgiven, believe really means work for.

same old twisting and plucking out of context and double speak, all the workers have the same playbook.

 

[dcontroversal]

if I could add to this list- saved really doesn't mean saved, forgiven really doesn't mean forgiven, believe really means work for.

same old twisting and plucking out of context and double speak, all the workers have the same playbook.

Amen and I agree.........

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I think there is much truth in this statement, as long as the works are by the Spirit of God and not man trying to please God this way. Goes back to source everytime. And the question of does He know you?

maybe im wrong


but doesnt matthew 5 speak of this?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Eternal life

What is Jesus saying about eternal life?

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good.
If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Matthew 19:16-17

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Matthew 19:28-29

The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12:25

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one."
John 10:27-30

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,
you have no life in you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
John 6:53-55

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:40

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
John 6:27-29

Some appear to be lying about eternal life. Look at the conditions Jesus put on it
1. Obey the commands
2. Listen to Jesus's words
3. Hate the life this world gives you
4. Eat Christs flesh and drink His blood
5. Work for Him

Now this is quite a list. What is obvious is false teachers can be struck off because
1. The do not obey the commandments
2. They deny Jesus's words
3. They love their life in the world
4. They are not interested in suffering with Christ and dwelling in Him
5. Working for Jesus is the last thing they want to do

Now to fail at any of these disqualifies one in Christ.
Jesus knows His sheep, and His sheep listen to Him. So if any teacher preaches
against listening to Jesus, they are not part of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some people are not honest.

Jesus did not give requirements to own eternal life, He told us what people who have it look like.

Here is what jesus said about eternal life.

He who believes has eternal life. Has past from life to death, Will never perish. Is not condemned,

Who is condemned? Those who do not believe.

What will those who HAVE eternal life do? Obey Gods commands. Be god followers. Etc etc.

even the apostle john said it is our FAITH we KNOW We HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, which keeps us believing in his name.

If we do nto trust God to keep his promise, we have no hope. If we have no hope. We have no faith, if we have no faith. We can look, act, live like people of God. Inb the end, Jesus will say depart from me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU

 

[star]

As for works, does God look first at the work or does God look first at the motive/heart/soul of the worker?

I believe He first looks at the motive.

 

[LightLoveHope]

When I read these words
"Jesus did not give requirements to own eternal life"

I wonder if the writer can read scripture and listen to Jesus? Obviously not.

"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." Matt 19:17

To gain life you must, must, obey the commandments.
The next question was which ones. But these false teachers never get
this far because their rebellion and blindness goes so far.

And their condemnation is complete.

They believe "if you believe denying Christ denies salvation you are lost".

But then one should expect nothing more from a false teacher
because their fruit or teachings declare their allegiance, and it is not with Jesus
and His words. They think they can tell who is saved and who is not by their principle
but it is not Jesus's teaching.

Jesus's teaching is simple, do not listen to Jesus, you do not know Him.

Now ofcourse this create fireworks, because their own teaching shows they are outside
the sheep pen, and wish to establish their sheep pen is the only true place to be.

But Jesus calls us to walk like Him, in purity, righteousness, meekness, peacefully.
It is enough to hear the rebellion against this to confirm their allegiance.

 

[LightLoveHope]

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

The man who says, "I know him," but

does not do what he commands

is a liar

, and

the truth is not in him.

But if anyone obeys his word,
God's love is truly made complete in him.
This is how we know we are in him:
Whoever claims to live in him
must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:3-6

 

[gb9]

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

The man who says, "I know him," but

does not do what he commands

is a liar

, and

the truth is not in him.

But if anyone obeys his word,
God's love is truly made complete in him.
This is how we know we are in him:
Whoever claims to live in him
must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:3-6

and what were those commands John was referring to- believe on the name of the Son, and love one another. chapter 3 of the same letter.

context.