The thief on the cross next to Jesus had just enough faith to put in just enough work to be saved. All that was needed, any more faith than that is just better rewards in heaven.
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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It crossed my mind to have concern for those who believe in eternal security, that during the falling away before the end, they could be deceived to think they are eternally secure as "Some fall away from the Faith giving heed to doctrines of devils (divided spirit)." Yet I know that concerns don't help, understanding that concern is not the same as Compassion and what has been prophesied will happen, regardless of our concerns and we are not to fear. Many have a faith, based on partial understanding, when even full understanding is not a place of faith and neither can we have full understanding. About partial understanding a good example here: not by works, describes that we can't place the gift of Faith in our works as its God's influence that causes Faith to work. "Without Love I am nothing," a fascinating word: with the hidden meaning that God is not trying to save nothing. Rejecting the Holy Spirit we become a ghost of what we were meant to be and that can't be forgiven.
"They overcame by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives as much as to shrink from death." This is not a work that we can do. "Not by the works of righteousness witch we have done but by His Grace alone." It's not possible for us to attain resurrection apart from the Holy Spirit. Yet it's written "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." This implies a labour of Love in agreement with God, carried by the Holy Spirit in us: " Born of God." This work of Love is not considered work as it's from a place of rest in God: Having been made alive by His Spirit. "We are seated in heavenly places in Christ."
"They overcame by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives as much as to shrink from death." This is not a work that we can do. "Not by the works of righteousness witch we have done but by His Grace alone." It's not possible for us to attain resurrection apart from the Holy Spirit. Yet it's written "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." This implies a labour of Love in agreement with God, carried by the Holy Spirit in us: " Born of God." This work of Love is not considered work as it's from a place of rest in God: Having been made alive by His Spirit. "We are seated in heavenly places in Christ."
Please take time to understand people, get to know them and read what they are saying.
As we all should do.
So in post 54069
You say
"A person is considered righteous by what they do and not faith alone"
Yet above you say "We are saved by grace through the sacrifice of Jesus, if we accept it"
Which one is it that saves and declares righteous?
Faith or works?
What Dave's saves us?
That is exactly what I have been saying in somewhat different words!!! According to James no works means a dead faith. He put it that faith without works is dead. Then the argument began attacking that quote from James saying I have it all wrong.
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I stand by the Bible in James 2. Faith without works is dead. The logic is indisputable. True faith produces good fruits. Bad faithfproduces bad fruits. This is what Jesus said and then the arguing began!!!
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
James 2
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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Endo,
If you don't mind me saying so, the following is what you said
A person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
But then you say were saved by grace through the sacrifice of Jesus.
Does that not seem contradictory to you?
I stand with the Bible as well.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Jude, James.
There is more than one book in the Bible.
There is more than one verse in the Bible.
I really have no idea why you are disagreeing with me.
Read my posts in response to you.
Then post what it is that we disagree on.
Then we can talk more.
If not then let's made leave it at that.
Once again, genuine faith will produce works.
It's a no brainer
When someone rejects the Laws and commandments of God and teaches people that they cannot or noone can obey the law,even while claiming that they are saved Christians who received the Holy Spirit through Faith, they have NO POWER and therefore reject and deny Jesus as coming in the flesh because the Law and the prophets testified/prophesied about His coming.
Matthew 11:12-19 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. “To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: “‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right BY HER ACTIONS.”
Romans 3:21-31 Righteousness Through Faith But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.(ref: matthew 19:16-26)
As I previously stated
All topics in the bible need to be examined with ALL scriptures in context about that topic to completely understand that topic.
Louis Berkhofs Systematic Theology is an example of a book that does this. Very large book.
Now look at You at you, proclaiming the OPPOSITE of where you once were. Define your terms, so that we KNOW that you mean the same by those terms as the rest of us. Just so you know, good works are a by product of GOD's LOVE coming into our heart, SO it is Definitely HOW GOD's LOVE coming into our Hearts, Changes Us. IT NEVER HAS BEEN A "I GOT TO THING", - - - IT IS I WILL WANT TO OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
A good understanding of the law is that it is not needed for the saved in Jesus Christ, because that same law is written on their hearts by the dwelling of the Holy Spirit. After all it is the Holy Spirit that wrote the laws in the first place. ROMANS;8; 2; For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (This old law was designed for the flesh at the time it was written.)3; For what the law could not do,in that it was weak through the flesh,God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,and for sin,condemned sin in the flesh. 4; That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,but after the spirit. 5.; For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh,but they that are after the spirit the things of the Spirit. 6; For to be carnally minded is death,but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7.; because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.....................(The carnal mind is not subjected to the law because it cannot keep the law. The Law is against them because of their worldly minds.,But that same law is good for the spiritual minded, because it is written in their hearts. The spiritual minded agrees to the law and all there is within, but the carnal minded disagree and fight against it.
This statement is idiotic.....and that is putting it mildly......
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
you can look to other books to learn of scripture
ill stick with scripture
id actually avoid any book you suggest
especially seeing how you carry yourself..
your "fruit"
youre arguing for no reason
not listening to sound doctrine and suggesting legitimate brothers in Christ may be "wolves"
for pointing to Jesus as our savior and not our own works
geez
open your eyes....
or pray for God to do it for you...
and maybe deflate your puffed up chest and lower your nose while Hes at it
Then do a lot of research before stating opinions about some texts in the Bible. You make yourself look foolish at times.
Systematic Theology and other similar books gather ALL scriptures on a topic and then discuss what they say. Scriptures first Dippidy Doo. Think before you post
Not hardly pal......those who cannot use context and then push some book that they get all their views out of seems to be the one who looks foolish.....
Still waiting on you to answer a few kindergarten milk questions from the word....
I will break it down and make it even easier to read and answer if there are too many words for you ENDOSCOPY....
Answer the FOLLOWING EASY questions....
HOW does one get placed INTO the VINE?
WHAT WORK places one into the VINE?
HE that BELIEVES in the SON and CONFESSES this BELIEF is ____________ <-WHAT?
WHAT 1 word goes with the bolded ONE right above this question?
